I'm refering to shooting film style, same scene with one camera and different angles.

Then why did you say 'editing'?

How about thanking Vic for taking the time to reply and acknowledging that your post could have been better phrased instead of rudely correcting him as if it was his fault.

Jeez . . .

ztalk112
'Then why did you say 'editing'?'

As a dialogue editor I have to say Dialogue Editing IS the correct term, ...look at the credits on any feature film for reference to the term..., and Vic has misunderstood the question... not his fault but you haven't understood the terminology either. I also don't think the reply was rude... perhaps a chill out time is necessary....???

This thread would be better posted to the Vegas Audio forum but as the Audio section is relatively quiet there's more chance of a response here.

Dialogue Editng is part of the Sound Editing process that usually follows the picture edit in professional situations. It is also usually done on a separate system and software application to the video edit BUT as Vegas has fairly powerful audio editing and mixing capabilities it is certainly suitable for this task.

Back to the original question...
Ideally the picture has been edited and you now have a single rendered image track that doesn't require further editing but do have the separate audio edits that were created during the picture edit . You can create this in Vegas, if the whole project has been edited on your system, by rendering an AVI of the project, doing a Save As... and creating a new Veg file, load the new Veg file, delete all image tracks then import the rendered image track, vison only, as a single video track.

Why would I do this???

Well it aviods accidentally changing the vision edit during audio/dialogue editing and it also removes the sound/vision grouping that Vegas applies to the original video and sound tracks when captured allowing the sound to be extended or reduced in length without affecting the image.

Track layout... The older film style was to 'checkerboard' or swap tracks for each new piece of sound. This isn't as necessary with automation of plugins and levels that Vegas and other DAWS offer.

It's still a good idea to separate wideshot from close up dialogue and ADR as you'll probably have to adjust levels, EQ and other settings to get a smooth coherent sound and having them on separate tracks helps setting this up.

Ideally during the recording of dialogue, mike positions etc, shouldn't change radically between close up and wideshot, unless different perspective sound is what you are trying to achieve. It's a common error to get the mike in as close as possible on the close up and then have to have it out wide for the wideshot and the two shots sound like chalk and cheese when compared. Radio mikes can help here but then add their own problems.... but I digress...

Rule of thumb... keep it on the same track and clean the edit from region to region (short crossfades in dialogue 'silence' can help clean an edit if necessary but 'if it ain;t broke don't fix it' or if youcan't hear a change on a region to region edit then leave it alone) if the dialogue AND back ground sound on the dialogue recording remains fairly constant.

Switch to a new track where the is an obvious change in the quality of the dialogue or the background sound on the dialogue track e.g. wider or closer perspective dialogue or background noise, ...aircon, traffic, whatever... increase or decrease. This allows you to set up different EQ, levels etc during the mix without having to rely on radical automation changes on the one track over one frame.

The use of a fill atmosphere track, or matching fill on the dialogue track to fill up the holes in the dialogue caused during picture editng... it always happens..., helps keep the sound consistent so you don't hear the background sound come and go in edit gaps.

Sorry I don't have any screen shots to show you from Vegas as I use ProTools for professional audio work but Vegas for my corporate video production business... not as much dialogue editng in corporates.

Regards
Stephen Hope
New Hope Media

To mask the change in atmos between scenes make the cut in the audio at the start of the first word of the next shot.

Bob.

Guys!!
NO offense taken - Hey! I spent most of my life in advertising.
I've been abused by the BEST - many of them professional sadists - I can take the heat ;>0)
(but thanks for the kind words)

So - about dialogue editing...
Let me learn the latest definitions.
It sounds to me like Newhope is referring to a "sweetening" process (matching levels, ambience, pre-mix, etc.) as opposed to the actual selection and positioning of takes in a scene. Is that correct? If not, then I AM confused.

90% of the time, I try to get the best "readings" from the talent in a scene, as opposed to the best visuals. Generally in a situation where you are shooting scripted work with professional actors (that's what I'm considering a dialogue situation), you've already set your cameras for the best shot, and you are trying to get best performances. Then you reshoot the scene from the various angles to give the editor a chance to lend variety and pacing to the scene.

That is what I consideredediting the "dialogue" , and my process is what I stated: Bang together the scene, look at it a few time. Then replay all the original takes. You will immediately see where "this take or that take" will play better in your scene.

Hope this helps.
v

I think the confusion is because:
Victor is talking about editing a dialogue scene (picture + audio).
Stephen is talking about "dialogue editing" (that's the term for it), which is audio sweetening.

Different things being called the same name.

Ah HA!!

. .and that, children, was the sound of many pennies dropping . . wanna hear that again? We have it as a Sony Loop effect.

Vic, sorry if you where offended by my response. I didn’t mean to.
Thanks for all of your input
When editing dialogue (video and audio), how do you place the different takes in the timeline. Do you place them all at ones in different tracks (cu, ms, ws, reaction shots) and trim them in the TL? Or do you trim as you place the clip in the TL.

Just a last word from me on this.
Basically all of your comments are correct BUT please don't use the term 'sweetening' when referring to sound, dialogue, FX editing and mixing.

I know it's come into general usage but I find it offensive and degrading and I know you didn't mean it that way. It's about the same as calling (video) editors 'picture cutters'

The process is either audio or sound post production depending on which side of the television/film fence you sit.

My personal crusade to rid the industry of 'takeaway' terminology... yeah I know it's a losing battle. ;-)

By the way no real offense taken as I know none was meant.

Stephen Hope
New Hope Media

If you are cutting the image at the same time just let them drop in as necessary and move them to separate tracks using the '8' and '2' keys on the numeric keypad.
To fine edit the dialogue after the image is edited either render a single vision track as outlined above or ungroup the audio from the vision track so that you can do finer editng without affecting your vision edit.
Remember you can only edit vision to frame boundaries but sound can, and often needs to, be edited to 100ths of a frame. Hence you often need to adjust the edit boundaries of the sound differently from the matching vision.
I don't specifically separate into CU WS tracks but as a start that would probably help you identify and set up processing EQ etc for mixing the audio.

Stephen Hope
New Hope Media

>>Basically all of your comments are correct BUT please don't use the term 'sweetening' when referring to sound, dialogue, FX editing and mixing.<<

Amen.