The camera is far superior to most of what you can find today in terms of it's image (assuming it is working properly). The generation loss if you are dubbing is really the only problem. It dates back to a time when manufacturers actually got it when it came to what should go into a good camera. Today's menu laden, microscopic CCD cameras are disgraceful and an insult to the public. Here are the specs on that camera:
Camera Section


o Hi8 VIDEO SYSTEM provides more than 400 lines of horizental
resolution.
o DIGITAL NOISE REDUCTION further reduces video noise for a clearer
picture.
o DIGITAL SPECIAL EFFECTS include 2X Digital Zoom, Strobe, Solarization,
Picture-in-Still, Overlap, Stop Motion, Flash Motion, Digital Picture
Superimposing, and 9 Multi Picture.
o DIGITAL TIME BASE CORRECTION virtually eliminates picture jitter.
o HIGH-DENSITY 2/3" PRECISION CCD with 420,000 pixels for increased
image resolution with virtually no image lag or burn.
o 11-8mm 8:1 VARIABLE SPEED POWER ZOOM with macro focusing. Digital
Zoom provides super closeup shots (up to 32x).
o 2-PAGE SUPERIMPOSER can be used during recording for superimposing
illustrations, handwritten or printed titles in 8 colors. Scroll,
reverse, capabilities.
o VARIABLE HIGH SPEED SHUTTER up to 1/10,000 sec.
o SUPERIOR SENSITIVITY with 2-lux minimum illumination
o AUTO OPERATION FEATURES: Through-the-lens Auto Focus; Push Auto Button
for temporary autpo focus in manual mode. Through-the-lens Auto white
balance with hold and preset mode (indoor//outdoor); Auto/Manual Iris
for accurate exposure in varying lighting conditions.
o DATE/TIME RECORDING with battery memory.


RECORDER SECTION


o 2-HOUR RECORDING on a single 120 minute video cassette.
o PCM DIGITAL STEREO RECORDING & AUDIO DUBBING gives your movies superior
audio reproduction and lets you add stereo music or sound to movies
you've already shot. (to those not familar, it's frequency response
is limited to 15 khz because of the sampling rate used in the 8mm format).
o HIGH FIDELITY AFM STEREO SOUND with wide dynamic range.
o BUILT IN SPEAKER to moinitor sound during record and playback.
o WIRELESS REMOTE CONTROL for operation of basic recording/playback
functions: zoom, record, pause, play, slow motion, on-screen data.
o CRYSTAL CLEAR SPECIAL EFFECTS include freeze-frame, slow motion, and
frame-by-frame advance.
o AUDIO/VIDEO FADE IN/OUT to black for smooth scene transition.
o ON-SCREEN DATA DISPLAY shows selected camcorder functions in the
viewfinder and on the TV for reference.
o LINEAR TIME COUNTER in hours, minutes, seconds.
o INTERVAL & FRAME RECORDING for time-lapse effects.
o NARRATION MIC for adding on-the-spot narration.


EDITING FUNCTIONS


o FLYING ERASE HEAD for noise free picture transitions and smooth
editing inserts.
o EDIT SWITCH allows tape editing with minimum loss in picture definition
through successive generations.
o INDEX SEARCH/SCAN FUNCTION to mark and locate individual scenes.
o DIGITAL NOISE-FREE PICTURE SEARCH without scan lines.
o RECORD/REVIEW function lets you check your most recent recorded
footage and plan smooth and creative transitions.
o DUAL SPEED EDIT SEARCH in forward and reverse.
o REMOTE EDITING TERMINAL (Control L) editing interface.
o S-VIDEO INPUT AND OUTPUT for editing and dubbing.


John

I always thought newer was better until I saw a dvd from this guy who calls himself the dvd guy(livids production (sp). He shoots concert dvds with a hi8 camera. His dvds are excellent!!! I have yet to see an audience shot dvd that comes close to his stuff in picture quality or sound quality.

I remember this camera.

This was the Holy Grail of cameras back in the day. I'm curious, once you have a good A>D converter and get it into the computer, isn't the Hi8 factor no longer a problem ?

Sounds like a good buy too me.

Thanks, all for your informative replies. Craftech, I have no instruments to determine if it’s really working up to specs, but in my hands-on testing, it certainly has produced some very pleasing video. Stonefield, I “convert” by simply dubbing the footage to my Digital 8 cam, then, capturing into Vegas, so, you’re right, generational loss really isn’t a factor. In fact, all my analog footage (even that from my very first cam, a Sony CCD-V8AF analog 8mm circa 1985) looks better. Read on if you care to peruse the odysseys of one old video nut.

My first really “good” cam was the Sony CCD-V220 (paid $1,900 back in 1987), the model that preceded the subject camera by about three years. It had most of the features the CCD-V5000, except that it was only 8mm, not Hi8. I bought it for the Digital PCM audio feature, and, of course, its video resolution was far superior to the average 8mm or VHS/VHSC cams available to consumers at the time. It was “my cam” for some ten years – I was in heaven thinking I had purchased a cam so good that I’d probably never have to purchase another in my lifetime.

I lugged that big cam as I rode motor scooters in Bermuda, on roller coasters and scramblers with my kids at Disney World, shot them playing in the snow, camping, boating, fishing, you name it, and felt quite clever in using it instead of my 60 lb reel to reel to record concerts (theirs, my own, my students, etc). The limited frequency response (it too maxed at 15kHz) was more than compensated by the totally hiss-less results it achieved without any need for audio noise reduction. To this day, I’ve used it as a poor man’s DAT as the first step in producing any number of audition tapes, CD’s, etc.

I was an absolute freak (or at least my family thought I was) for shooting so much video, although, in those days, all I did was look at the footage a time or two, then stored it away. Once in a while, I toyed with an effort to edit and transfer to my BetaHiFI VCR, but the effort was too tedious, and the loss of fidelity was evident.

Then, as computers developed, I started getting involved in editing – first Pinnacle’s Studio Director (version 200 followed by 400). That’s when I first realized that my trustworthy old friend had grown long in the tooth. I went right out and purchased a Hi8 handycam without much thought to picture quality, I just wanted a machine that would respond more appropriately to the editing package (all those “Director” packages did was allow the computer to control a linear assembly edit process – seemed quite impressive at the time, but the result was always a second generation copy).

Imagine my surprise at how much clearer the Hi8 picture was than my old 8mm machine. Needless to say, the more I worked at editing linearly, the more hungry I became for better results (the Hi8 lacked time code, so my clips were always subject to inaccuracy of a frame or two).

I got particularly frustrated one day, and marched right out again without doing much research, in search of a cam with time code (didn’t care about any other features, it just had to have time code). I grabbed a TRV103 off the shelf and took it home. Without thinking, I had stumbled into the age of digital 8mm video. The increased quality made me instantly loathe anything second generation, so I started reading about what software programs would allow me to actually capture the digital footage and work on it inside the computer, outputting the same edited footage back out to my new digital cam. It didn’t take long for me to find that Vegas Video was the only editing package within reach that would allow me to have unlimited video/audio tracks, so that’s the direction in which I headed.

Working with Vegas was always a pleasure – and with my poor-man’s combo of equipment, I’ve been able to combine elements of all the areas I enjoy (music, video, computers) to have a lot of fun, and actually make some money along the way.

I had been looking online and in magazine mail-order sections for my next camcorder when I came across this CCDV5000 – I should have guessed, but never imagined that Sony had produced a Hi8 version of my old CCD-V220. Previous forays into the Ebay realm for a back-up for the V220 have not been fruitful, as the cam I “won” turned out to be non-operational, but the seller was genuinely apologetic, and we worked out a deal that let me keep the thing for the nice case that it came in, so, I was willing to try again on this latest Hi8 cam. I got it for less than $400 (and I’ve seen two others on Ebay that will go for more than $650, so I feel quite fortunate to have picked up the one I got for so little. That it appears to be in perfect working order simply made my day.

I still recognize that I need to step up to a professional level cam (or at least more modern prosumer cam) – and am seriously considering that Canon GL2, or perhaps that shoulder-mount 1-chip Panasonic model (forget the model number). But, basically, this CCDV5000 should bridge the gap while I $ave and study my options.

I do a lot of three-cam shooting, and have no problem mixing Hi8 footage with the digi8 stuff, but, as I mentioned initially, the regular 8mm stuff is just too noticeably inferior to use. In the past, I’ve borrowed the third camera. Used a PD150 for one project, an XL1 for another. The color of the XL1 is more noticeably different (not better or worse, IMO) when combined with my TRV103 footage than the PD150, but, I certainly liked that XL1, for sure.

Anyhow, if you’ve read this far, thanks. This forum has always been a source of pleasure and solid advice.

Caruso

You can play the Hi8 tapes back in the D8 camcorder, no real point in dubbing them to D8 unless you want to keep a D8 tape as an archive.
The D8 will add Time Base Correction and Dynamic Noise Reduction which helps no end with Hi8.
Bob.

Bob:
I haven't tried playing a Hi8 from the CCDV5000 on the digi8, but suspect that I'll find the same problem as those shot on the CCDV220 8mm. It seems the PCM stereo audio track isn't laid down on the tape in the same way on the v220 as on the digi8, so that when I capture to Vegas, I get a pair of identical mono audio tracks instead of the left and right stereo tracks. If I dub from the old cam to the digi8, I don't have this problem, obviously, since the source tape is being read by the machine it was recorded on.

This "new" old cam also has Time Base Correction (I've read about it, but am not certain exactly what it does), and also noise reduction, but I haven't had a chance to play with and understand that either.

I wasn't aware that d8 added either of these, and, while I understand what noise reduction is, I don't have a clue how Time Base Correction works.

Caruso

Time Base Correction ensures that all the line and fields of video are locked to an accurate clock. This doesn't matter too much in the analogue world as TVs and monitors derive their sync pules from the analogue signal so if they wonder a bit not a problem.
However DV isn't so tolerant, it starts sampling right from the start of the line.
You can see the effects of this when you capture VHS without a TBC, the black bar on the left of the frame is the horizontal blanking interval, notice how it's a bit jagged. When you use a TBC you'll find the jaggies disappear.
There's two different kinds of TBC, the one in the ADVC-300 is line based, it only corrects for errors within a line, the one in the D8 cameras buffers a whole frame and can therefore correct for errors accross the whole frame.

I don't know if my explainations are 100% technically accurate, when I started out a few years ago my broadcast mates looked at some stuff from VHS that I'd worked on and said "Bob, you need a TBC", haven't looked back since.
Bob.

I don't have a way to capture non-digital VHS, so won't be able to see what you are talking about. But, If I'm dubbing to my D8, then, I guess I really don't have to worry about it, right?
Caruso

You can capture VHS via your D8 camera.
Yes you should worry about it but it's mostly bing taken care of for you.
Most likely when you dub your Hi8 to D8 the camera/VCR is using its TBC
to stabilise the image.
Bob.

Bob:
When I bought my D8, I doubt the term "pass thru" was on the tip of anyone's tongue at the time. I read somewhere that I can perform some software flash on my D8 cam to allow for pass-thru, but, for now, whenever I plug the firewire cable into the cam, pass-thru of any input to the cam is disabled - that includes the LCD monitor as well.

Fortunately, the D8 will pass digital firewire input to it's SVHS and composite outputs so that I can send edited footage out to my source deck (a Sony SLV-R1000 SVHS VCR).

More and more, these days, I make DVD's instead of VHS tapes - depends what and for whom I'm producing the final result.

I know there are many digital cams of varying formats that will pass input through to the computer - but, without modification, mine will not.

I'm going to do a bit of reading today to brush up on that TBC business. From reading your posts, it appears that dubbing to the DV cam covers that issue for me, and, with the incorporation of this "new" old cam, I have double the insurance (or at least a sort of redundant system).

One thing I have noticed is that I get a sort of diagonal distortion of the video when I capture from the D8 to the computer. It's about 1/16" high on the monitor at the very bottom of the screen and stretches the entire width of the screen. Doesn't seem to matter whether the footage was dubbed to the D8 from another deck or shot originally on the DVcam. I usually just crop the entire project to eliminate it. It sort of resembles mis-tracking. What would cause this, and is there something I can adjust to stop it from occurring?

Thanks again for your helpful replies.

Caruso

The line tearing at the bottom of the frame is the head switching in the Hi8 system. Even though it's mostly outside the viewable area on the TV I mask it out, the border FX works well for this. Why bother?
Two reasons, firstly when you encode to mpeg-2 the encoder is still having to encode that information and as it's jumping around it may use up a bit of bandwith for nothing. Secondly if you play the DVD out to many of the new LCD / plasma displays you can end up seeing it.

I'm surprised your D8 doesn't do pass through, I thought only the european models had that issue. Although maybe there was so low end units that even came into Australia years ago that didn't do it either. Either way though if you record from the S-Video or composite input to the D8 tape unless you turn the TBC option Off in the menu then it'll be applied and the signal will be cleaned up as well as it can be.

Bob.

Yea, I always record from the S-Video to D8 tape. Didn't know I could turn TBC off (not sure why I would want to), and, most importantly, my tapes turn out fine.

Thanks again, Bob.

Caruso

Just out of curiosity, what was wrong with the audio from the Sony PD?

Keith

There were - how should I say? - artifacts, break up, not unlike the sound my cams make when the heads are clogged - but these were definitely not clogged - well, the guy who owns the cam is anal about its care - rolls up and stashes his cords and all his equipment just so. He cleaned the heads before the performance.

He had really fancy mics mounted on very high, counterbalanced stands (not that any of that addresses the bad spots in the sound). I'm just pointing out that this fellow seemed to know his equipment and was very careful, methodical in its care and set-up. Mic connection was through balanced XLR inputs.

Throughout the show, there were spots in his audio that were just unusable. Had his been our only audio source, I would have been very disappointed.

My previous statement about the audio is probably a bit extreme and mis-leading. It wasn't all bad, but there were enough bad spots that I chose to use the audio from my CCD-V220 instead.

This was a staged musical, so, the somewhat limited frequency response on my equipment was not really an issue - we're talking about voices and instruments that are already being amplified by the equipment on stage, so, at least IMO, it isn't the same as if I were recording a classical recital where any such imperfection in the recording would pretty much render it useless.

The good part about using three cams (I ran three for video and the CCD-V220 for audio only) is that the audio recording was redundant (to a degree). Naturally, there was great separation between these machines, so you couldn't indiscriminately mix the audio from different machines. That's why we designated the PD150 and the CCD-V220 as the two audio machines. The mics for those two machines were stationed similar locations.

I don't know the audio specs on the PD150, but guess, like my old cam, it's no match for a good, dedicated audio recorder, but, this was a musical, not a concert, so we could get away with little imperfections. Whatever was happening with the PD150 caused audio blemishes that you would not consider acceptable.

I think I read somewhere that there were some audio problems with PD150's for which sony issued some sort of fix. I could be wrong, though.

Caruso

Thanks Caruso....I have a 170 so that caught my attention. I remember reading that the 150s or maybe even the early production 170s had some audio issues when the lcd was open. I thought that might have been what you were talking about.

Keith