Which version of DVDA4 are you running? The most recent version of DVDA4 (version 4b) includes a fix to some "offsets" that used to prevent some DVD Recorder/Player units from playing DVDA DVD's. PGCedit used to fix those offsets so that the DVDA DVD would play on those machines.

Sony says they addressed the problem with the DVDA4 update, and it does appear the offests are set to the same numbers had you run the dvd through PGCedit's macro (just eyeballing some of the offsets myself). But I have read at least one user still has a problem with DVDA4b DVD"s on a DVD Recorder/Player unit -- and running it through PGCedit's stream fixed the issue for that user...

ymmv

"I've gotten a complaint from one parent that the DVD wouldn't play on a DVR machine."

From what I've read & experienced, DVDR's are *Iffy* critters. Some won't play all types of media, & most seem more concerned with playing their own recordings. They tend to use different chipsets than players, and it's my understanding that a few of the chipsets are extremely funky. Personally I'd ask (dip[lomatically) what brand/model is giving problems and research it at places like videohelp's DVDR database for clues on it's limitations.

As far as button problems go, according to the DVDLab folks multi-cell menu pages can have compatibility problems (buttons not working if I recall correctly) -- they mention this is more common for Sony players. If you use a loop-point on your menu rather than a separate intro video DVDA 4b creates a 2 cell menu page.

[Note: I've read about and experienced little if any delays using a separate intro video, & the pause at the end of the menu (before looping) to me seems less using separate video. If you place the intro vid at the top of the tree, DVDA should put it close to your menu video & it seems to help.]

The place to check for any info on possible compatibility fixes using PgcEdit would be the forum at videohelp where the author takes place in user discussions. There used to be talk of an alleged problem with the actual placement of some IFO & BUP files on the DVD -- at the time Nero was famous for not obeying the spec -- & today saving a DVD with PgcEdit pops up the message: "VTS sectors (with gaps between IFO and BUPs) OK!". I've never seen it cause or prevent problems so...

"It does indicate two problems for DVDA4 created DVDs. "

The only common problem I can remember with DVDA layouts in PgcEdit is an error message about the number of streams listed vs. actual -- allowing PgcEdit to fix it has on a few occasions mucked up the DVD so I recommend ignoring it.

"I am nervous about introducing problems that weren't there in the first place. "

This is a Very Valid concern, depending on the complexity of your DVD. DVDA creates a Bunch of dummy PGCs that store scripting... you'll see them opening a DVDA DVD in PgcEdit. I *think* they form a framework so that DVDA can activate whatever features you choose, but you're saddled with this layer of complexity whether you need it or not. Use Trace mode in PgcEdit and you'll see for yourself. The potential problem is that it's very difficult to tell where one small change is going to have an effect downstream, & then possibly one that you cannot duplicate using software like Power DVD. SCS has much greater resources than most any of us when it comes to testing compatibility, so personally I try and change as little as possible, & then modify DVDA's scripting rather than add anything or trust macros.

As far as button problems go, according to the DVDLab folks multi-cell menu pages can have compatibility problems (buttons not working if I recall correctly) -- they mention this is more common for Sony players. If you use a loop-point on your menu rather than a separate intro video DVDA 4b creates a 2 cell menu page.

Not sure if the latest version of DLP resolved this. I identified an issue for them that the cell breaks in the menus were not properly tagged, and so some Sony DVD Players would not recognize the cell boundaries properly. They have fixed it in the most recent DLP build, and I haven't heard of any compatibility problems since the fix...

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The "pause" between intro-clip and looping clip is more noticeable if you want a continuous audio track -- which is not possible with separate assets.


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The files must be burned in the proper order/sequence for valid DVD-VIDEO -- IFO/VOB(s)/BUP. There are other constraints, but improperly burning as a "Data" DVD where these files are not written in the proper order can cause disc-recognition failure in DVD Players. Software DVD Players will be ok, as they know what files to look for...


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There was definitely an issue (prior to version 4b) that had incorrect offsets for some of the files. They seemed to have resolved this, but there was that one thread I read (somewhere, I cannot remember) where a user of version 4b still had the problem, and had to run it through PGCedit's "Stream fix" macro -- which apparently fixes other things behind the scenes...

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Yes, DVDA's abstraction layer does seem to have a "framework" to allow for common tasks. Using such a framework often introduces some wasted/complex code, but it helps make authoring a little easier than programming your own code.

I am using version 4b

Thanks for all your replies guys. Based on the centroid of your collective knowledge, I will trust DVDA 4b to do the job. I can also take the precaution of making a test DVD and ask the parent who had a problem to try it and see if it works OK on their machine. (She lives right nearby). That way, I have all my bases covered. The DVD has 4 menu buttons. Each plays a separate video. Each video has many chapters. I did this rather than use playlists in order to minimize the risk of unwanted delays (which are usually neglibible anyway). I am using a playlist for a "Play all" button as making one huge video becomes cumbersome with about an hour of total play time whenever any small errors had to be corrected. Three moderately long videos are more manageable than one huge video for incorporating any last minute corrections

Digital Steve

Let us know if the disc has problems and, if it does, whether PGCEdit fixes it.

Probably just trivia George, mentioned only in case it's of interest... Please ignore with my apologies otherwise.

Testing DVDA DVDs on stand-a-lone players, I have seen a definite, maybe even severe lag when the menu video loops, which I think is barely worse using DVDA loop point menus. I pay attention to the loop stop/start because I think many viewers are used to retail DVDs with a long list of trailers etc, so they pop the DVD in, but don't actually gather round the TV for several minutes -- the intro's a nice touch, but by these folks totally ignored. For the loop to work well the menu audio fades at both ends, meaning the intro audio needs to fade too, so the audio continuity is for me moot.

That's not to say that a separate intro vid works as seamlessly as a 2 cell menu, at least on older players -- that's just not my main focus... In fact, the retail folks have my family so well trained that I can't remember the last time I even noticed that there was an intro video.

Just to document what PCGEDIT flags as errors using DVD Architect 4B with a DVD that has an initial video and a 4 button main menu. Three buttons each point to a different video which each contain about a half dozen chapter markers. The fourth button plays a playlist containing the three other videos. The main menu has a background photo and audio loop. Here are the PGCEDIT error messages when I open the DVD folder on my hard drive with PGCEDIT:

Warning: There are 2 discrepancies in some VMGM/VTSI_MAT tables. Do you want to run the "Fix number of streams" macro to fix them?

(I answer "Yes" in th dialog box.)

There are 1 audio streams defined in the menu domain in the VMGM_MAT table of VMGM. 0 audio streams are really used by the PGCs. Fix the number of audio streams in VMGM_MAT to 0?

(I answer "Yes" in the dialog box.)

There is one subpic stream defined for the menu domain in the VMGM_MAT table of VMGM. However, all PGCs in the domain are dummies. The subpic definitions should therefore be removed. Fix the number of subpic streams in the VMGM_MAT to 0?

(I answer "Yes" in the dialog box then hit File/Save DVD.)

It responds "DVD Saved OK. VTS Sectors (Standard method) OK!

(I click OK in the dialog box).

I burned two DVDs - one directly from DVDA4B, the other using PGCEDIT before the burn with DVDA4B. Not, I'll try some compatibility tests on multiple DVD players and a DVR.

- Digital Steve

FWIW Steve, did you try playing the PgcEdit version in Power DVD off your hdd? That's where I had problems crop up -- sometimes the edited version wouldn't even open or play.

Well, here's my compatibility test results. I made three versions:
1. Authored and burned in DVDA 4B.
2. Authored in DVDA 4B, burned in Nero Burning ROM 7.8.5.0
3. Authored in DVDA 4B, edited to "fix problems" in PGCEDIT, burned in DVDA 4B.

In summary, I saw no differences in any of the three versions on a given player. My experience with different players was as follows:

On a SANYO DVD recorder which had previously given me problems with an older version of DVDA, where menu came up but menu buttons did not activate, 4B now works!!!. Menu buttons now activate properly on a machine that gave me problems before.

All three versions worked flawlessly on a Phillips DVD player. However, on a JVC, Broksonic combo DVD player and VCR, works fine except for one small bug: When I try to move forward to the next chapter, chapter markers all work properly except when you try to go past the very last one. When you run out of chapter markers but before reaching the end of a video file, some machines do nothing, play to the end and return to the main menu (that's OK) while other machines go the next video in the "Play all" playlist" instead of returning to the main menu, as you'd expect it to. I tried adding a marker near the very end of each video, but it did not seem to make any difference whatever. Only the Phillips returned to the main menu when you go past the last chapter button on the remote. OK, so you don't return to the main menu. Not so bad, but it would be nice to be consistent from player to player. (I carefully checked my end action settings in DVDA - no errors here).

In addition, I tried the PGCEDITed version as well as the DVDA 4B unmodified DVD from my hard drive using PowerDVD and either version played ok and both worked the same way.

So in conclusion, at least in my case, DVDA 4B worked fine and that's the version I will use for reproduction.

Digital Steve