thanks for your answer....ya, I meant hi-8....well nothing digital anyway, do you have any recomendations?

Hi-8, as far as I know, is not much supported by the manufacturers these days. Even back when the most expensive prosumer Hi-8 such as the Canon L-2 (great camera), they were still only single CCD.

To get 3-chip Hi-8 you had to go to a docakble broadcast rig. Perhaps you could find one on eBay. Note also, that Hi-8 was a format plagued with a Hi-dropout rate.

Gary

Addendum: Oh yeah, there was the Sony VX-3 3-Chip.

“… not so great lighting conditions, but I'm still surprized at the graininess in the resulting picture. “

I don’t believe the GL2 was ever noted for its low-light capabilities. I have been using a GL2 for outdoor shooting with very nice results. I always set exposure manually using zebra pattern; this is done through the viewfinder, as I haven’t been able to use the foldout LCD screen with any precision. I usually use a polarizing filter and most times need the electronic ND. I almost exclusively use a CP setting that takes out 3 increments of sharpness as the default setting (in my camera) looks over-sharpened to me. My (limited) indoor shots with a reasonable amount of light have been acceptable, with careful lighting they look even good at times; not grainy unless a fair amount of gain was used to compensate for low light conditions. Also, I’ve found that I need either my homemade shoulder brace or a tripod to be able to use the full range of the GL2’s 20x lens, which seems impossible to control otherwise. I’m continually amazed at the detail I can pull in with that lens under good lighting and when it’s properly stabilized.

Granted, I'm certainly no expert with this camera (or any other camera). Therefore I havn't really experimented much with the color gain settings. Maybe I also have exagerated expectaions.
I guess what bothers me the most is areas of light and dark contrast.
This afternoon I was playing around , filming the sun hitting a brown picnic table. The table had very dark areas (cracks between the boards) and very light areas where the sun was hitting the surface. The result was a harshness in contrast between the well lit areas and the darker ones. I think this is more a problem with the medium, as opposed to the camera. However, where the two met seemed (hard to discribe this), but it seemed jagged? Very jagged. I turned on the ND filter and it made very little difference. I havn't played with any other settings, but I think what was bothering me the most was plain and simply the digital(ness) of the medium; obviously there's not much I can do about this. After all, digital is digital.

I'm was just hoping that the digital(ness) (what should I call that anyway...pixilation?) would be much less apparent using such a high-end camera. Therefore I'm just wondering if buying a cheaper digital camera will be (almost) just as good as far as colors go.

"...Therefore I'm just wondering if buying a cheaper digital camera will be (almost) just as good as far as colors go. "

You might want to try something that helped me. Take a blank tape down to your favorite camera shop and see if they will let you capture some footage using several different camcorders. Get the same shots (both outdoors and inside) with each model. View the tape at home on a good tv set (playing through your GL2 while you still have it) and compare the picture quality. With a little planning, the sound quality could also be evaluated this way, if that’s something that’s important to you.

Hi,
That's a great idea. However, I'm just wondering if the digital(ness)(the pixalation) is something I'll just have to get used to and live with in this medium? It's kind of weird because I've seen documentaries shot with small medium end portable digital camcorders, and they seemed to have done something to really limit the harshness.....any suggestions or comments?

> just wondering if the digital(ness)(the pixalation) is something I'll just have to get used to and live with in this medium?

I could have written this post two years ago when my trusty Panasonic VHS-C camcorder started giving out and I bought a Panasonic PV-DV600. I couldn’t believe that people were saying digital was better when everything my eyes were seeing was a lot worse. I resigned to the fact that digital cameras are not good in low light and do not give you the warmth of color that analog cameras do, but then again, you can say that for digital audio and warmth as well.

I did side-by-side tests against a green rug in my house and the digital showed noise around the texture of the rug pile while the analog camera just recorded the texture perfectly. So there will be conditions where the analog is going to look better. Even now, when I’m shooting indoors I’m not happy with the dark graininess of my digital when my analog did such a great job. I just try to be more aware of it and put more lights on instead of trying to record in natural light.

Given enough light, digital camcorders do a great job and have a crisper picture. They just don’t have the low light capabilities that analog camcorders do, regardless of the price you paid.

~jr

>They just don’t have the low light capabilities that analog camcorders do, regardless of the price you paid.<

I would strongly disagree. I do not think you can make that statement without having experience with more than two or three camcorders.

Gary

I have found mini dv cams to be great in low light conditions, we use our 3K canon xl1's in low light situations where our 40K beta sp cam is useless.

A bit farther up the post, you mentioned shooting the sun on a dark picnic table. That problem, dynamic range, is one that plauges most prosumer DV cams. While I have only used the GL2 a few times, I've shot countless hours on the XL1 and XL1s and it sucks when it comes to dynamic range. Since these cameras (1 and 1s) have more controls than the GL2, I would assume the GL2 has even more difficulty with high contrast shots.
Cameras like these, even though they are 3-chip, just can't handle full mid-day sun the way a truly professional rig can, be it DVCpro, Beta, DigiBeata, or HD. While VV has proved that more expensive isn't always better, when it comes to aquisition gear, the more you pay the more you get.
This isn't to say that you can't get good images with a prosumer camera. I have made some great stuff using the XL1s. However the best stuff I've shot using it has come on a day that was overcast, turning the sun into the worlds biggest Chimera, or in a situation where I had control over the lighting.
Before you return the camera, learn all of it's manual controls and user settings. Experiment under different lighting conditions and really run the cam through it's paces. The more you learn about any camera, the better you will be with it. For warmer look, white balance on a 'white card' that's SLIGHTLY baby blue. For cooler tones, white balance on something SLIGHTLY pink or red.
You also mentioned digital break-up problems. You should NEVER experience any sort of pixelization or break up on a newer or even half-a##ed maintained prosumer camera. If you are, it's most likely the tape you are using. We shot Panasonic tapes in the XL1 and had a horrible time with break-up. Once we changed to Sony tapes, the problem dissapeared. This is by no means a knock on Panasonic tapes, but simply an observation on how some cameras operate better with different media. Another thing to keep in mind, especially with the Canon cameras, is to ALWAYS shoot in SP mode. Shooting in the slower mode will give you more tape, but it is very unstable and very prone to audio drop-out. The faster the tape moves across the heads, the better.
From what I've read, the Panasonic DVX-100 handles high light to dark ratios very well, and has more flexable gamma settings.
My suggestion for anyone venturing into the camera market, would be "try before you buy".

I’m fairly new to video but my background in still photography has really helped as many of the same principles apply to both. Compared to the human eye, even the best film cameras handle high contrast situations poorly. Most if not all video cameras are even more limited. What you can see is generally not what you will get. As previously mentioned, getting to know your equipment (and its limitations) is half the battle, and this comes with experience. An inexpensive camera can produce good results at times and an expensive camera can produce junk.

Since what a camera does is record light, the key in any photography, still, video, film, digital, whatever, is having good lighting. (An interesting subject helps of course ;) Waiting 10 minutes longer to capture a shot near sunset can make tons more difference in the final result than the camera itself. Another ten minutes after that and it’s too late, you’ve missed your chance and the best equipment in the world won’t help.

> I do not think you can make that statement without having experience with more than two or three camcorders

Fair enough. I retract my statement. My advice: when buying new camcorder, check the Lux rating to be sure it’s at least as good as your old camcorder was. My brand new digital Panasonic was 7 lux while my old analog Panasonic was 1 lux.

~jr

I've done a lot more testing, and I'm starting to like my camera a lot more. Shooting in movie (frame) mode has made all the difference!! In this mode, things are much clearer....it's really amazing and I didn't expect it to be so good at all. So things are looking up....:-)

My XM2 [PAL version of GL2 ] is fab! The cololurs are brilliant. Use BBs colour corection on the output from these cameras - it is truly stunning. Just remember , its the camera that is doing the really hard job of getting the stuff captured. XM2 will then give you buckets of options into V4.

Grazie

I just got my Gl2 a few days ago so I am probably not concidered an expert on the camera, but I have done a lot of tests in the last few days and I get really good low light pictures with little to no grains. I would suggest that you read the manual really carefully and learn a lot more about the manual settings this camera has to offer. IF you just go into a dark room and set the camera on auto, then yeah, you will get really crappy video. But if you set everything up right you can actually get really good video in low light situations.

I had to go back to some of my old college textbooks to remember what some of the settings do, but with a little reasearch and trial and error you can get the camera to do great shoots in mostly any situation.

One other tip, the mic on the GL2 isn't really that great, I just ordered a Canon DM-50 microphone to hopefully get better audio from the camera. IT should be here tomorrow and I will post what I think of it after I get a chance to test it out.

Jsnkc - yer wanna share some of your light settings/tips with us - bit OT - but it would help me to get footage into V4 theI want it - yeah?

Grazie

I will try and post some later tonight, I don't have the camera with me at the moment.

No problemos!

G

I use a Sony DCR VX2000 and it is incredable in low light situations. I just filmed three prsentations given in a church with poor lighting, when I played the video back it looked wonderful. This camera rocks if you need a low light 3CCD DV Camera.

Yup - It's got a bigger chip - Over here in the UK it's about another $900-$1k over the XM2 . . .

Grazie

I'd love to hear some of the manual adjustments you make to achieve better results in low light...:-)

What I did was first, remove the lens hood. I went into manual mode by pushing in the select wheel. Then I set it at S 1/8 F 1.8 and 18DB
These settings should give you a good low light picture as long as you aren't doing any real fast pans, or zooms. This works for me, whether it will work for you guys, I don't know. I guess it all depends on what you concider "low light" The tests I did were at night in a dark room with 1 or 2 lamps on with 40 watt bulbs in them and lampshades. It looked really good with both lamps on, and acceptable with just 1 of the lamps on. With 2 lamps on I was also able to bring up the shutter to 1/15 and still get a pretty good image. You can also try bringing the DB down to 12 or 6 if you are getting a grainy picture. Basically just play around with these 3 numbers untill you find a combo that looks good.