I have the utmost respect for Donald Graft, he is a genious, and uncommonly generous. Sometimes its hard to explain to people why some of the BEST filtering utilties in the industry are not included with the main NLE, but rather are available free. Free from a guy(s) who does this as a hobby.

Regarding the Plugin Request:
I would be interested.
Do you mean Proprocess as in a AVIsynth script or as an actual Plugin inside VV?

I was just thinking. Can you imagine if VV actually worked with Donald and negotiated a deal to actually integrate some of thoses filters. I may not seem like a big deal, but I can see the POP advertising now. "First NLE to integrate (superlatives galore) Donald Grafts ....." Almost the way Sony did with its camcorder lenses. It could be the boost in filtering vv it needed especially when it comes to noise reduction and deinterlacing. Now just add some better HollywoodFX type/style 3d transitions, and you have got, bar none, the best NLE available..PERIOD. (that is, if you didn't feel like it was already).

Oh, but that would require them to work with Divx.com to get Divx 5.02 to work,..Hmm....now I'm not so hopeful.

Amount $$$? I don't know. It would depend on how much work Donald thought it might require.

jeffy82@aol.com

I mean as a plugin inside VV.

Thanks for the support. Now let's get a few more people to compliment Donald as you did & hopefully we can get him on board.

I think your suggestion on VV supporting the effort is great! It'd be even cooler if SoFo wrote an 'adapter' so that you could use vdub plugins with no modifications. That would let VV leverage the existing plugin base from vdub. They could still have a press release - "First NLE to integrate open source plugin libraries!"

As far as $$ go, I gues what I'm asking you is what are these filters worth to you? We're all used to getting these plugins for free, would you be willing to now buy them from Donald. So I guess I'm asking, is the Noise reduction or deinterlace filter etc. bring enough value to you that you'd gladly pay $20,$25,$30,$50,$75,$100 for one of them?

I personally think that each filter is easily worth $30-$50 to me, and with bundle you could get a set of 4 for $75-$100...

(BTW, I'm not affilliated with him, I just want to see these filters made)

- Jon

Jon,
I read your other reply post on VDub.
Not long after getting into PC's, I too came accross Virtual Dub. I like it, and use it constantly for the "render as still image sequence", streaming renders, quickie conversions. I haven't used a lot of the plugins, but some of them look interesting, like the temporal smoother......I'll stop there. I thought I had the smart de-interlacer. That must have been on an older install.........but anyway, where do I get that (again)?


Yes! I would be intersted in such an idea as well.

pat

I definately would be interested :) we need more plug-in for VV3!

Write a Vegas plug-in, SF will help you sell it. Email me offline if you need contact info and other details.

VirtualDub filters in Vegas? Heck, yes!

One of the reasons I still use Premiere in some situations is that I have so many plug-ins for it. Vegas would be even more attractive than it already is if there were a instantly a whole bunch of additional third-party plugins available. It would give Vegas another competetive edge in the quest to dethrone Premiere.

Maybe it could be approached from the other direction, perhaps Vegas could be made to natively use Virtual Dub plugins. Instead of rewriting all the Virtual Dub plugins, perhaps some enterprising programmer could write a plug-in for Vegas which would then allow you to use any Virtual Dub filter. This could work the same way as any of the several Direct-X translator plugins that allow you to use VST plugins in a Direct-X application.

Since Donald Graft has such a good grasp of how Virtual Dub filters work, maybe he could download the Vegas plug-in kit and see if a translator plug-in could be easily created.

John

Does SoFo provide developers with time-limited full versions of the software? Donald's an open-source kind of guy. If we could just 'hand him what he needed' he might go for it.

All of Donald's filters, as well as links to all the other vdub plugins (he's the semi-official source for vdub plugins) are supposed to be on:

http://sauron.mordor.net/dgraft/

but he's been having some DNS issues, so right now they can be gotten at:
http://shelob.mordor.net/dgraft/

Another awesome filter is 'LogoAway' by Krzysztof Wojdon. It's sort of a 'healing' filter that can eliminate static elements like station logos etc, by blending in all the border pixels... Very nice.

http://republika.pl/voidon/virtualdub/index.html

Finally, Karel Suhajda took the logoaway concept & wrote an insanely advanced filter, that can even remove colored overlays & restore much of the underlying image! (You can get it on Donald's site)

http://shelob.mordor.net/dgraft/delogo/delogomanual/delogo.htm

Scroll to the bottom of this page & see the samples!

These types of advanced filters don't even exist for other longer lived NLEs! To leverage these would greatly improve VV's complete offering.

- Jon

I'd go for it, even pay for it. Wouldn't like to have to pay for a second Noise Reduction, but I'd consider it if it were a good bit easier to use. The other filters sound facinating. SF, give this guy the tools he needs. It's called an investment.

If you look at the second post, I believe SF has given him all the tools he needs. The SDK in addition to a demo version of Vegas should set him up quite nicely.

There's a fortune waiting to be made in Vegas plug-ins. You'd think there would be enough out-of-work coders right now ready to make that happen. Maybe they just need to be pointed in the right direction. After all, whoever heard of Vegas video? By Sonic what? Oh, the guys who do the loop based stuff, right.

Luxo

Opening VV3 to accept all the existing VirtualDUB-filters out there would be the best solution.

This would provide VV3 with some excellent cleaning, deinterlacing and image processing capabilities.

This is a functionallity that I would greet highly welcome!

Regards,
Eirik Solheim

Judging from the dozens of new filters that appear INCLUDED in the "upgrades" of every NLE on the market, you might expect VV to add more each time THEY upgrade. Here is a set that people are eager to have included in the standard "upgrade" and version of VV4.

I refer to ALL those mentioned in this thread, not only the VirtualDub filters.

And how about an Automatic White Balance Correction (event) filter?

Hmm! Wonder if they'll take the hint?

By the way, SoFo and SonicEPM, thanks for sending him the Developer's Kit. Smart.

An enterprising person could very likely create a "glue" plug-in that would host virtual dub's plug-ins in Vegas. Although the interface might not be as clean as native plug-ins, nearly all of the vdub plugs, and future ones, would work. Porting plugs piecemeal would only give you those plug-ins that got ported.

Host plug-ins like this have been done for audio FX, allowing VST plug-ins to be used in DX-based applications, such as Vegas.

///d@

I would love it. I was just doing a search for some way to clean video with a temporal smoother within Vegas Video. I want to take VHS captures and clean up the audio and video. Well, Vegas Video works well to clean the audio with the Noise Reduction plug-in (I have the demo for now) and VirtualDub works great for the video. I hate using two programs and going through twice. I would like to just select this filter for the video, this for the audio, render once, done.

Any other ways to clean the video from directly within Vegas? I don't really want to go for a blur, I would like to do something a little smarter along the temporal line if possible. Thanks.

what a terrific idea!!

I would vote for the adapter approach to host any VDub plugin in Vegas. I use the flaXen VHS filter, Temporal Cleaner by Jim Casaburi, and Dynamic Noise Reduction by Steven Don. So while having Donald Graft’s filters would be nice, it would be great to be able to use ANY VDub filter in Vegas.

As for price, I have a personal preference of free for personal use and pay for commercial use. If you are making money off of using the filter than I think the author should be compensated. If you’re just making home videos you probably can’t justify the price to your spouse and would probably not use it if it came to paying for it. Just my personal belief. A lower price for personal use is OK too.

Yesterday I was reading some appends on creative cow about how they should charge more for Vegas 4.0 to give it credibility. It was the most ridiculous thing I ever read. I would hope if Sonic was planning to double the price of Vegas 4.0 so Hollywood would notice that they would also offer a private / home video pricing (similar to academic pricing) for those of us who don’t have a Hollywood budget. I have a tremendous respect for Pinnacle System in this area. They allow home users the same Hollywood FX they sell to pros for $400 for only $69 as a plugin to their Studio home user products.

The bottom line on pricing is: Please remember that lots of people who are into video editing don’t make money off of it and can’t justify high prices. I would not pay $30-$50 a filter. Someone making $1500 per wedding video might, but I don’t and can't pay that much. Make it accessible to everyone, and price based on licensing. And I promise I won’t make a Hollywood movie with my copy of Vegas. ;-)

~jr