AMD VCE Rendering Questions

IAM4UK wrote on 5/29/2018, 4:22 PM

Like many, I'm glad to have the more-stable and capable Build 361 of Vegas Pro 15. I have an AMD R9 390 GPU, which I'm experimenting with for rendering in VP15b361. This thread is for questions about AMD VCE rendering (and hopefully answers).

Here's one question: Can AMD VCE be used with Magix AVC at 4K resolution? If so, what settings are required? I've tried it, and it fails instantly, although the same render with Mainconcept works (slowly). I've also tried at 1080 resolution, and both AMD VCE and Mainconcept work at that resolution.

Comments

IAM4UK wrote on 5/29/2018, 6:21 PM

Another question: Can anyone else test this phenomenon? MP4 files rendered in 1080p24 Magix AVC with AMD VCE High Quality Low Latency won't "seek" during playback. (Playback programs tested include Windows Movies and TV, VLC, and Jriver Media Center.)

IAM4UK wrote on 5/29/2018, 6:25 PM

This thread could also include some AMD VCE rendering stats, if you like. Here are some...

7:19 movie, 1080p, 23.976fps, AVC MP4
Source files 4K resolution
Numerous filters and media generators included
Intel i7-6850 at stock 3.6GHz, 6 cores, 12 threads, 64 GB System RAM
AMD Radeon R9-390, 8 GB RAM
 


AMD VCE High Quality, Low Latency
Render time:  7:26
CPU approx average usage:  65%
GPU approx average usage:  45%
System memory used:  17.6 GB
GPU dedicated memory used:  3.8 GB
File size:  553 MB

AMD VCE High Performance
Render time:  7:29
CPU approx average usage:  55%
GPU approx average usage:  40%
System memory used:  17.5 GB
GPU dedicated memory used:  3.8 GB
File size:  999 MB

Mainconcept - CPU only
Render time:  15:17
CPU approx average usage:  85%
System memory used:  17.4 GB
File size:  1.38GB

The image quality is not vastly different, but I don't understand why the VCE High Quality setting produces files of smaller size (same settings for Max and Ave bitrate in Render Options). Also, since the VCE HQ MP4 can't "seek" in playback, I suppose I won't use it until I figure these things out better. But that VCE High Perf result is encouraging to me. There are times I could benefit from having that available.

IAM4UK wrote on 5/29/2018, 6:32 PM

By the way, that 7:19 movie mentioned in the post above is viewable at this link:
https://vimeo.com/realprod48/museedit

It was made in just two days, upon randomly selecting a couple of genres from 30 possibilities. (The genre we made was Fantasy.) If you're interested in trying out such a challenge, it's a fun activity called The 48 Film Project.

BruceUSA wrote on 5/29/2018, 7:01 PM

You need a high end card to be able to render 4k 2160p with amd vce. Otherwise you will get error. My frontier edition card render 4k with amd vce no problem but my other system with r9 290x got error.

fifonik wrote on 5/29/2018, 9:21 PM

If you are interested in AMD VCE encoding, you might check if you have this issue with overwriting files using Magix AVC with AMD VCE.

Camcorder: Panasonic X920

Desktop: MB: MSI B450M MORTAR TITANIUM, CPU: AMD Ryzen 3700X, RAM: G'Skill 16 GB DDR4 3200, Graphics card: MSI RX470 4GB, SSD: Samsung 850 EVO SATA 250MB, HDDs: Seagate & Toshiba 2TB, OS: Windows 10 64-bit 1909

NLE: Vegas Pro [Edit] 11, 12, 13, 15, 17

IAM4UK wrote on 5/30/2018, 9:41 AM

Thanks, fifonik. I've not experienced that particular issue thus far.

IAM4UK wrote on 5/30/2018, 9:44 AM

Something I've noticed: Even if the source material is 4k, if your intended output will be something else (like 1080), it is far, far faster in rendering to NOT let the project "match settings" of the source video files. If the project settings match the intended output, the renders are much faster. That's my consistent observation, both with Mainconcept and AMD VCE.

IAM4UK wrote on 5/30/2018, 9:53 AM

Can anyone explain in "plain-text" what the settings within the AMD VCE dialog box mean? As per the results I posted above, and others I didn't post, the "High Performance" renderings are significantly larger files than the "High Quality" renderings. That is counter-intuitive based on my assumptions of what those terms mean, so I probably have faulty assumptions about those terms.

OldSmoke wrote on 5/30/2018, 10:08 AM

I would think high performance as in high performance car, not fuel efficient but fast.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

IAM4UK wrote on 5/30/2018, 10:21 AM

I would think high performance as in high performance car, not fuel efficient but fast.

Me, too. Yet it's not faster.

And typically, higher quality MP4 files have higher bitrates, but that is the opposite in the VCE output.

By the way, the bitrate settings in VCE dialog box seem possibly to have little (but some) meaning.

john_dennis wrote on 5/30/2018, 10:53 AM

I have VCE available in hardware but have little interest in ASIC encoders. I understand why you might use it if you're on a 48 hour deadline, however.

I'm curious about one thing in your video. Did you intentionally blur the large infrastructure cabinets in this scene? If so, why? Why not the big Ford truck.

IAM4UK wrote on 5/30/2018, 11:03 AM

Yes, I intentionally added that blur, to lessen the appearance of the shadows that revealed those shots of the foot-chase were not done one-after-another.

IAM4UK wrote on 5/31/2018, 9:21 AM

You need a high end card to be able to render 4k 2160p with amd vce. Otherwise you will get error. My frontier edition card render 4k with amd vce no problem but my other system with r9 290x got error.


@BruceUSA Thank you. I studied some more after reading your reply. There are different versions of VCE (I should have expected that); I have 2.0 on my R9-390, and your Frontier has 4.0.

That leads me to a couple additional questions:

- What are the important differences for video editing/encoding/rendering between Vega 56/64 and Frontier?

- You considered Frontier the way to go...are you convinced of that now that you're using one?

- Frontiers seem hard to acquire; any suggestions about the best place to buy one?

BruceUSA wrote on 5/31/2018, 9:41 AM

@IAM4UK  Vega 56/64 and Frontier Edition card there are all the same Vega 10 architecture. The difference between them are Vega 56/64 are designed for gaming while Frontier Edition card are designed for professional work, CAD?CAM Design/Graphic Design. And have a higher HBM2 Memory ( 16GB). Frontier Edition card are used Professional Certified Driver and a 10 bit color. How much better Frontier Card vs Vegas 56/64? that I do not know. I bought the Frontier Card almost 6 months ago when I was building my high end system and I was banking on that Magix will eventually support AMD new high end card. I got my wished came true with VP361. I am very happy this version, work extremely well with my Frontier card. Its rip thru the Sony Project (Red Car) finished in 14s.

OldSmoke wrote on 5/31/2018, 10:24 AM

@IAM4UK  Vega 56/64 and Frontier Edition card there are all the same Vega 10 architecture. The difference between them are Vega 56/64 are designed for gaming while Frontier Edition card are designed for professional work, CAD?CAM Design/Graphic Design. And have a higher HBM2 Memory ( 16GB). Frontier Edition card are used Professional Certified Driver and a 10 bit color. How much better Frontier Card vs Vegas 56/64? that I do not know. I bought the Frontier Card almost 6 months ago when I was building my high end system and I was banking on that Magix will eventually support AMD new high end card. I got my wished came true with VP361. I am very happy this version, work extremely well with my Frontier card. Its rip thru the Sony Project (Red Car) finished in 14s.

Bruce, that sounds good, 14s is about 3sec faster than my Fury X.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

BruceUSA wrote on 5/31/2018, 11:04 AM

@OldSmoke  true 3s faster is not a whole lot but that is a 1080P project. I would guess on 10 bit 4K will definately show its true power.

IAM4UK wrote on 5/31/2018, 11:53 AM

Since the Frontier Edition is about a kilobuck, I suppose I will wait until I really need to render 4K quickly. Perhaps that won't be until VEGAS Pro supports HDR10 or something like that.

For my typical 1080p24 AVC renders, I am very glad that my R9-390 is now being engaged to render at about half the time it took with CPU only.

OldSmoke wrote on 5/31/2018, 2:27 PM

@OldSmoke  true 3s faster is not a whole lot but that is a 1080P project. I would guess on 10 bit 4K will definately show its true power.

I am glad that my Fury X is now finally supported. I am on the road and cant check but I believe I did post my render times with SCS Benchmark Project converted to 4K; its still 8bit.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

gpasko wrote on 1/17/2019, 3:45 PM

Does anyone know what the minimum AMD card to support 1440P in VCE rendering? I edit my wife's YouTube channel and their codecs have a higher bitrate when uploading as 1440P vs 1080P even on the lower resolution playback.

john_dennis wrote on 1/17/2019, 6:37 PM

Not the minimum, but I bought the RX480 version of this card a year ago.

wwaag wrote on 1/18/2019, 12:27 AM

It works OK with a 550. It's my understanding that within a series (4 or 5) that VCE support is the same. Essentially VCE support is the same for a 550 or 580 (I chose the 550 at the time when prices were out-of-sight).

gpasko wrote on 1/18/2019, 9:20 AM

Not the minimum, but I bought the RX480 version of this card a year ago.

It works OK with a 550. It's my understanding that within a series (4 or 5) that VCE support is the same. Essentially VCE support is the same for a 550 or 580 (I chose the 550 at the time when prices were out-of-sight).

I tested an rx480 that I purchased used. Its bios had been updated to an rx580 (I would have never done anything like that). I tried to render using a couple VCE's, but I got an error. I didn't play around with it too much. I kind of figured my card wasn't compatible as I wasn't sure if I needed a Fury/Nano or a VEGA card or better to get the upscaled 1440P. My original footage is 1080P and so it would then be upscaled when rendered. I am using Vegas Pro 15 Edit. Any suggestion on which VCE rendering settings I should use? What kind of FPS should I expect to see (ballpark)?

btw- I'm using some color correction, sharpening, and a watermark/overlay. Nothing too terribly demanding.

 

Thanks!

john_dennis wrote on 1/18/2019, 11:08 AM

My results with a 30 second high motion project using the system you see if you click on my picture.

I customized the pixel dimensions of a Magix Internet 4K 2160p 29.97 fps AMD VCE template as follows:

Rendering (downscaling) from a Ultra HD source:

 

Rendering (upscaling) from a Full HD source:

The morale of this story:

It's a lot easier to discard or combine pixels than it is to create them out of thin air.

john_dennis wrote on 1/18/2019, 12:37 PM

More AMD VCE fodder...

UHD to UHD

FHD to FHD

FHD-120 FPS to FHD-30 FPS