AVCHD CLIP SPANNING WITH VEGAS?

clearvu wrote on 6/15/2011, 3:28 PM

I have recently purchased the Canon XA-10 camcorder which I have found out creates individual files at the 2 gig mark. In my research I have also found that other manufacturers do the same thing when a lenghty recording is made. In my case I videod straight for 1 hour and have about 4 clips, each 2 gig in size. This is not a problem in itself, but I notice that when I import, for example, clip A and B into Vegas that part of the end of clip A is missing and the beginning of clip B.

Apparently, the software has to support "clip spanning". This is what Canon has told me after investigating this further. They've explained that "clip spanning" is a technique used so that the end of clip A is repeated at the beginning of clip B. The idea is to drop them into a video editing program so that they overlap.

Is there a setting on Vegas that allows importing clips that use "clip spanning"? The Canon rep told me that any software video editor that does NOT support "clip spanning" will tamper with the files in some way. What Vegas is doing to the files is one of the type of problems that will occur. I've searched the Sony forums and find nothing about this, but it seems to be discussed with other types of software.

Appreciate someone's help on this because I really need to record long clips and can not have Vegas snip off part of it.

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farss wrote on 6/17/2011, 4:56 AM

"Is "Sony's Clip Browser" for Sony specific cameras? Is it available for download?"

It is only for Sony's XDCAM EX cameras. It is a free download.

With the EX cameras which write 4GB chunks the GOP is closed at the head and tail of the file, Vegas will join these correctly. When the file spans two cards is when Vegas drops frames / audio. This happens because the GOP spans the cards. To get even the Clipbrowser to join those two files corrected they have to be in the one BPAV directory sutructure complete with the correct control files.

I suspect why this happens is related to the flash memory write speed. The SxS cards for those cameras are quite epensive RAID 5 cards. The very fast SDHC cards will also work fine with the appropriate adaptors. The need for speed is because closing one file and opening a new one involves a lot of memory cycles. Add trying to close the GOP and the processor is also working hard and of cause frame of video also have to be processed and/or buffered.

I suspect your camera will work just fine with quite slow and cheap cards. That's quite a plus for a cheapish camera! The downside is of course somehow the chunks have to be patched back together again so an NLE can handle them. It is a bit of an ask to expect an NLE to know it has to read another file to get all the data to decode the current frame.

Bob.

nedski wrote on 6/17/2011, 5:41 PM

I recently got a Canon HF G10 which is just like the XA-10 minus a few features.

I hooked up the camcorder via USB to my computer and used the "Device Explorer" to import a 45 minute clip. It created a 7.3 GB file in the folder I specified which I then dragged onto the Vegas 10d timeline.

It work just fine, no missing bits.

PS. Device Explorer needs the entire camcorder folder structure, you need more than just the MTS files. The other folders have the thumbnails and other information about the video files.

PPS. How do you like the XA-10 so far? I'm very satisfied with the HF G10, though it would be nice to have those XLR inputs and the infrared capability. I used the $500 price difference to buy a new shotgun and wireless mics.

clearvu wrote on 6/17/2011, 6:22 PM

This is probably a dumg question, but I might be missing something.

You refer to, "Device Explorer". Can you explain this further? Where is that found? Perhaps is called something else?

clearvu wrote on 6/17/2011, 6:24 PM

Oh, as for the camera, so far I really like it.

nedski wrote on 6/17/2011, 8:46 PM

"Device Explorer" is under the "View" pull down menu.

Check the help menu and/or page 60 of the Vegas manual PDF.

It's fairly simple to use. I didn't know about for years.

clearvu wrote on 6/18/2011, 4:48 PM

The fact is that I have NOT seen that before. I'm accessing my computer remotely to view Vegas and will attach the camcorder to see if there is a different result when transfering files that way.

clearvu wrote on 6/19/2011, 7:55 PM

Well, you know what? It worked! The Spanned Clips were viewed as one file via the "Device Explorer" although there were technically more than one file present. When I imported the clip(s), they came over as one.

Thanks!

Rob Franks wrote on 6/19/2011, 8:29 PM

I believe Musicvid was the first to mention device explorer... 4th post from the top back on the 15th.... you didn't take the hint then??

musicvid10 wrote on 6/19/2011, 9:08 PM

Thanks Rob Franks,

I was about to post a more pointed response but yours is better.

I believe that sometimes people who can read actually choose not to absorb, pursue or act on what is being suggested, even though doing so can do them no harm.

The OP's first response that "I've tried both and the results are exactly the same" is a fundamentally clear indication of this tendency.

Not quite sure of the reason, but it is worth noting that this thread has grown from potentially 5 to 7 posts maximum, to 33 or more as a result.

Not all of that excess can be attributed to a lack of understanding (if my reading glasses are seeing this clearly).

clearvu, glad you got it sorted.

;?)

clearvu wrote on 6/20/2011, 6:54 AM

Rob did indeed refer to the "Device Explorer" early in the post and I assumed he meant the Explorer in Windows and Vegas. "Device Explorer" is oddly burried within Vegas' drop down menu under "View" or by using Crtl+Alt+7. The doesn't seem to be a way of planting it with the Vegas desktop view either.

I did not even realise such a thing existed within Vegas, as Rob mentioned for a long time that he did not either. This revelation occured after I questioned the matter in case I was misunderstanding something, which I was, and once he clarified it and identified its location, I found it.

I am very thankful for all who help me out in this matter and do apologize for the extended unnecessary posts in the process. I hope now that the thread exists, it will help others who have the same issue as me.