Comments

3POINT wrote on 4/30/2019, 3:05 PM

My Sony cameras configuration is XAVC S 4K 60 Mbits/s during recording.

I think that's the lowest possible quality for 4k. XAVC 4k records normally with 150/100Mbits/s. XAVC is a recording format, not an endformat (as far as I now). I would render either to AVC or HEVC instead of XAVC.

3POINT, Theo Houben, Vegasuser since version 5

Recware: DJI Osmo Pocket, GoproHero7Black, PanasonicFZ300/HCX909, Sony PXW-X160.

Software:VegasPro16/VegasMovieStudio16/PowerDirector16

Hardware:i7 4770, 16GB, GTX650ti, 1920x1200 display

Playware:Philips 55PFL7108

Kinvermark wrote on 4/30/2019, 3:06 PM

I am also curious about what the final destination (or purpose) of these files is.

Philbec wrote on 4/30/2019, 4:03 PM

Sony camera (RX10M3 and A7M3) have 2 recording speed (60Mbits/s and 100Mbits/s) depending on memory card. As I am doing a short film, I want to synchronize each video sequence I made with a sound recorder in a first time. And then editing new video sequences for the final film.

Kinvermark wrote on 4/30/2019, 5:00 PM

Que? :)

60/100 is the data rate; nothing to do with "speed." I don't understand why you would have to do anything to them other than drag them on to the timeline and edit them. You certainly wouldn't want to re-render the 100 Mbit footage to 60 just to "dumb it down." Now, if they were different frame rates (e.g. 29.97 vs 23.976) then you have a bit of a problem to solve.

AVsupport wrote on 4/30/2019, 6:22 PM

same here. XAVCS is an aquisition format. but not good for editing and delivery.

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest drivers

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

Eagle Six wrote on 4/30/2019, 6:31 PM

Sony camera (RX10M3 and A7M3) have 2 recording speed (60Mbits/s and 100Mbits/s) depending on memory card. As I am doing a short film, I want to synchronize each video sequence I made with a sound recorder in a first time. And then editing new video sequences for the final film.


For my clarity, from your camera source media you are syncing your audio, then rendering an intermediate with XAVC S at the same bite rate as the camera source, and using this intermediate as your source for your project. Is that correct? If so you are acquiring at 60 Mb/s and want to render intermediates at 60 Mb/s.

System Specs......
Corsair Obsidian Series 450D ATX Mid Tower
Asus X99-A II LGA 2011-v3, Intel X99 SATA 6 Gb/s USB 3.1/3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core i7-6800K 15M Broadwell-E, 6 core 3.4 GHz LGA 2011-v3 (overclocked 20%)
64GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200
Corsair Hydro Series H110i GTX 280mm Extreme Performance Liquid CPU Cooler
MSI Radeon R9 390 DirectX 12 8GB Video Card
Corsair RMx Series RM750X 740W 80 Plus Gold power pack
Samsung 970 EVO NVMe M.2 boot drive
Corsair Neutron XT 2.5 480GB SATA III SSD - video work drive
Western Digitial 1TB 7200 RPM SATA - video work drive
Western Digital Black 6TB 7200 RPM SATA 6Bb/s 128MB Cache 3.5 data drive

Bluray Disc burner drive
2x 1080p monitors
Microsoft Window 10 Pro
DaVinci Resolve Studio 16 pb2
SVP13, MVP15, MVP16, SMSP13, MVMS15, MVMSP15, MVMSP16

Philbec wrote on 5/1/2019, 4:36 AM

to AVsupport : can you explain me why XAVCS is not good for editing ?

to Eagle Six : Yes,I want to synchronize each video file with external audio file and rendering each in XAVCS with the same bit rate. Then using new files as source for my project. Final delivery will certainly be in another format.

3POINT wrote on 5/1/2019, 6:01 AM

Yes,I want to synchronize each video file with external audio file and rendering each in XAVCS with the same bit rate. Then using new files as source for my project. Final delivery will certainly be in another format.

Should make no difference for synchronizing, better rendering with a higher bitrate than a lower bitrate as the source Media. XAVC rendertemplates have all a constant bitrate, 100 mbps for 4k.

3POINT, Theo Houben, Vegasuser since version 5

Recware: DJI Osmo Pocket, GoproHero7Black, PanasonicFZ300/HCX909, Sony PXW-X160.

Software:VegasPro16/VegasMovieStudio16/PowerDirector16

Hardware:i7 4770, 16GB, GTX650ti, 1920x1200 display

Playware:Philips 55PFL7108

AVsupport wrote on 5/1/2019, 8:35 AM

to AVsupport : can you explain me why XAVCS is not good for editing ?

intra frame compression. codec uses 'longer' timespans to reduce data. VP performs better with frame-by-frame data readily available.

 

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest drivers

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

Kinvermark wrote on 5/1/2019, 8:58 AM

@Philbec

1) You can sync the replacement audio to the clips on the timeline and then lock them together. Then no need for the extra render.

2) If you still want to use an intermediate for some reason, then XAVC-S is a bad choice (hard to edit, and lossy format). Better to use visually lossless intra frame/wavelet codec like cineform, MagicYUV, or XAVC-intra.

Eagle Six wrote on 5/1/2019, 9:05 AM

to Eagle Six : Yes,I want to synchronize each video file with external audio file and rendering each in XAVCS with the same bit rate. Then using new files as source for my project. Final delivery will certainly be in another format.

@Philbec Thank You. With that in mind, I would follow @Kinvermark suggestion below....

1) You can sync the replacement audio to the clips on the timeline and then lock them together. Then no need for the extra render.

2) If you still want to use an intermediate for some reason, then XAVC-S is a bad choice (hard to edit, and lossy format). Better to use visually lossless intra frame/wavelet codec like cineform, MagicYUV, or XAVC-intra.

 

Last changed by Eagle Six on 5/1/2019, 9:05 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

System Specs......
Corsair Obsidian Series 450D ATX Mid Tower
Asus X99-A II LGA 2011-v3, Intel X99 SATA 6 Gb/s USB 3.1/3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core i7-6800K 15M Broadwell-E, 6 core 3.4 GHz LGA 2011-v3 (overclocked 20%)
64GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200
Corsair Hydro Series H110i GTX 280mm Extreme Performance Liquid CPU Cooler
MSI Radeon R9 390 DirectX 12 8GB Video Card
Corsair RMx Series RM750X 740W 80 Plus Gold power pack
Samsung 970 EVO NVMe M.2 boot drive
Corsair Neutron XT 2.5 480GB SATA III SSD - video work drive
Western Digitial 1TB 7200 RPM SATA - video work drive
Western Digital Black 6TB 7200 RPM SATA 6Bb/s 128MB Cache 3.5 data drive

Bluray Disc burner drive
2x 1080p monitors
Microsoft Window 10 Pro
DaVinci Resolve Studio 16 pb2
SVP13, MVP15, MVP16, SMSP13, MVMS15, MVMSP15, MVMSP16

john_dennis wrote on 5/1/2019, 9:32 AM

"PC Configuration : ASUS VivoBook Pro 17 and Windows 10 64bits"

I routinely edit 100 Mbps XAVC from the Sony RX10IV without using an intermediate on my desktop. You may not be so lucky with a laptop. Also, converting to an intermediate will/should raise the bit rate as each p-frame is reconstructed to an I-frame. This could make I/O the limiting factor for a laptop drive unless you use an SSD.

Perhaps a good all-round solution for working with a laptop would be to use proxies. Read the Vegas Help section on Proxies.

@Philbec @Eagle Six @Kinvermark @AVsupport

Kinvermark wrote on 5/1/2019, 9:48 AM

Perhaps a good all-round solution for working with a laptop would be to use proxies. Read the Vegas Help section on Proxies.

Agreed. Much faster/easier on the system to make small "lightweight" proxies rather than large lossless intermediates - assuming the OP doesn't need an intermediate for some reason we are unaware of.

Musicvid wrote on 5/1/2019, 10:14 AM

Final delivery will certainly be in another format.

Using an interframe compressed codec like XAVC-S as a "lossless intermediate" is certain to introduce generational loss that may not be seen the first time, but is cumulative, like making a photocopy of a photocopy.

There are several wonderful intraframe compressors that will not reveal any loss after five generations, including XAVC-I, and are vastly superior for this purpose.

That all said, there is no reason not to use a lightweight proxy, the most obvious route to the outcome you describe.

It may be helpful to note that Vegas will not stream copy XAVC, even at the exact bitrate it was recorded. It will always encode, thus lose some quality. If you are interested in playing with fast stream copy, which for all intents is 1:1, a muxer called VideoRedo may be to your liking.

Marco. wrote on 5/1/2019, 12:24 PM

At least VP does smart render XAVC-I.

Musicvid wrote on 5/1/2019, 1:31 PM

I don't think I knew about that.

I knew about xdcam, etc.

AVsupport wrote on 5/1/2019, 6:50 PM

Problems on my end with XAVCS usually start once you add grade & FX. Recommending Happy Otter Scrips for proxy replacement, to x264 with nVidia support.Gives fast transcoding, low filesize, and quality preview if your system can handle 1080 on a 4K screen ;-). More choices than the 'internal' option

@Marco. could you pls elaborate on the 'smart render' ?

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest drivers

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

john_dennis wrote on 5/1/2019, 8:55 PM

"...could you pls elaborate on the 'smart render' ?"

@AVsupport

Look for the phase "No Recompression Required" in this epic.

Musicvid wrote on 5/1/2019, 9:05 PM

And it works!

Great tip, @Marco.

It turns out I had forgotten this post:

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/rendering-choices--115476/#ca715743

Oh, I had great fun hiding my own Easter Eggs this year!

OldSmoke wrote on 5/1/2019, 9:58 PM

"...could you pls elaborate on the 'smart render' ?"

@AVsupport

Look for the phase "No Recompression Required" in this epic.

I also smart renders pre-rendered sections🙂

 

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x ASUS Fury-X
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM

Philbec wrote on 5/2/2019, 2:28 AM

Hi,

Thank you for all of you for explanation. As for XAVC-I, I thought that XAVC-S didn't need recompression. I was wrong.

Have a good day

JN_ wrote on 5/2/2019, 2:34 AM

When doing these tests I had to disable “no recompress rendering” in Vegas, otherwise I wouldn’t get any generational change using Xavc-I, see the note at the very bottom of the left table.

 

Desktop and Laptop basic specs ...

Both run Win 10 ...

Running latest ver. of Vegas Pro with latest updates.

VP13 B453 also.

Vegaseur and Pluraleyes installed on both ...

Quicktime 7.79.80.95

PC ...

i9 9900K, Intel Graphics 630. Nov 2018.

Mem. 32gb DDR4 Nov. '18.

Graphics card .. Nvidia Rtx 2080 Ti

Nvidia Graphics driver .. latest Studio driver.

Latest Intel Graphics driver

 

Laptop ... (Acer Predator G9-793-77AC)

CPU .. i7-6700HQ Skylake-H

Memory ..16GB DDR4 

Graphics card .. Nvidia GTX 1070, latest Studio driver.

AVsupport wrote on 5/2/2019, 2:49 AM

proxy vs intermediate? guess the jury's still out? personally, currently I haven't found a XAVC-S based 4K intermediate workflow I was really happy with..

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest drivers

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

Musicvid wrote on 5/2/2019, 12:26 PM

Unless one needs the durability and portability an intermediate offers, the file size and time spent rendering makes the proxy a clear winner.