Encoding to DNxHR to feed handbrake

Julius_ wrote on 7/31/2020, 4:13 PM

 

Hi,

I was told to use to follow these steps:

  • Never ever ever use h264/5 directly from davinci or any other nle. The result is good in most of them, but not the best. If u are using grain, it's worse.
  • Do DNxHR 10 or 12 bits.
  • After that, hand brake using h264 or 5 in 10 bits with GRAIN seated on encode tune option. RF on 18 or less.
  • Sample:

As my NLE is vegas V17, I need to copy what they want.

The only option for me to use DNxHR is if I select Quicktime 7, and then Video fromat to DNxHR....but the file name will be a MOV file. In their screenshot it's a mxf file.

I went ahead anyway and created the MOV file with the DNxHR codec but when I bring it into Handbrake nothing happens..as if it can't read the file..I also tried renaming it mxf.

Any ideas?

Thanks
 

Comments

john_dennis wrote on 7/31/2020, 4:41 PM

@Julius_

Skip the intermediate if you want to use the open source encoders in Handbrake.

Use Happy Otter Scripts https://tools4vegas.com/home/

or Voukoder. https://www.voukoder.org/forum/thread/422-voukoder-for-vegas/

Julius_ wrote on 7/31/2020, 4:52 PM

Thanks John, but I don't have a say in this...this is the requirement I have to follow.

What do you mean by "skip the intermediate", how else do I render it out of vegas?

Thank you

wwaag wrote on 7/31/2020, 5:46 PM

AFAIK Voukoder only supports 8bit from Vegas. If I'm wrong, please someone correct me.

Regardless, you can easily do this with HappyOtterScripts https://tools4vegas.com/ using the Vegas Direct option. It first renders the DNxHR file from Vegas and then begins the x264 render. Here's a demo. At the very end I added the DNxHR temp file just to show its media info. In this way, you can maintain a 10bit pipeline. I should also point out that the underlying encoders for both HOS and Handbrake are the same.

 

Musicvid wrote on 7/31/2020, 6:35 PM

DNxHR LE (MOV) is the free version for Windows.

DNxHR PE (MXF) is the paid ver$ion that comes with Media Composer.

I don't know of a 10 bit version, only 8 or 12, although it can certainly be fed through a 10 bit pipeline.

Beyond that, the instructions you were given are hogwash, if a bit fanciful.

  1. Handbrake maintains an 8 bit video engine pipeline, which is the lowest common denominator, regardless of what you put in or take out.
  2. Grain tune should rarely be used, but can reduce file size if you are encoding the movie Fargo, for instance. A light denoise filter usually works better.
  3. Anything lower than RF18 is ridiculous, as the output file size begins to exceed the input.

Anyone who boasts (or demands) universal settings based on one successful encode or anecdote should be held highly suspect.

Apple has declared DNxHR "deprecated" and no longer supports it, according to an internet article.

Better intermediate suggestions are provided by my colleagues above. But personally I haven't used DNX.. codecs for years as intermediates, since recommending them in the early 2010s.

wwaag wrote on 7/31/2020, 7:04 PM

@Musicvid

I didn't realize that Handbrake was 8 bit only. I tried opening the DNxHR temp file created by HOS in Handbrake and it threw an error the same as reported by the OP.

@Julius_

Bottom line is that if you want to maintain a 10bit pipeline you should avoid use of Handbrake altogether. You can either try HOS if you want to render to 10 bit using x264 or you can use the native Vegas encoder using Nvenc HEVC 10bit or Intel QuickSync HEVC 10bit.

Musicvid wrote on 7/31/2020, 7:15 PM

+1

Julius, wrt your "instructions," I would nod my head, say "yes," and then do the right thing. You are in good hands with @wwaag and @john_dennis.

Although there is an x264 Hi10p profile, it isn't well supported, having been preempted by HEVC. But if you have 8 bit source, it really doesn't make a difference.

john_dennis wrote on 7/31/2020, 9:14 PM

I hate to be such a stickler for detail, but the example screenshot showed 8 bit?

wwaag wrote on 7/31/2020, 9:42 PM

If the source video is 8bit (I presumed 10 bit--otherwise why use DNxHR 10 bit or 12 bit), then there's no need for an intermediate at all. Just use Voukoder as you suggested.

Musicvid wrote on 7/31/2020, 9:51 PM

I hate to be such a stickler for detail, but the example screenshot showed 8 bit?

The less I stickle, the more I like sticklers.

 

Julius_ wrote on 7/31/2020, 10:24 PM

You guys really pulled thru...Thanks for this valuable lesson, I kinda get lost on the different rendering options.

I checked the footage and it''s 4:2:0 8 bits!

So with this 8 bit, I should use Voukoder, and then feed this to handbrake? (does Voukoder encode with DNxHR?? Can't I just encode with a Magix AVC/AAC MP4 and feed it to handbrake?

 

And if I'm given 10 bit footage, then I use the Happy Otter Scripts and stop there (no handbrake because it's only 8 bit)?

 

Thanks for helping me clarify this...@Musicvid it's not hogwash....it's rubbish! :)

Musicvid wrote on 7/31/2020, 10:36 PM

So with this 8 bit, I should use Voukoder, and then feed this to handbrake?

No, encode to x264 in Voukoder. finit.

Julius_ wrote on 7/31/2020, 10:41 PM

AFAIK Voukoder only supports 8bit from Vegas. If I'm wrong, please someone correct me.

Regardless, you can easily do this with HappyOtterScripts https://tools4vegas.com/ using the Vegas Direct option. It first renders the DNxHR file from Vegas and then begins the x264 render. Here's a demo. At the very end I added the DNxHR temp file just to show its media info. In this way, you can maintain a 10bit pipeline. I should also point out that the underlying encoders for both HOS and Handbrake are the same.

 

Thanks for this...it was really helpful on how that plugin works

Julius_ wrote on 8/1/2020, 6:17 PM

I downloaded Voukoder and trying it out...

I told my contact that handbrake is 8 bits..and his response was:

"This doesn't exist. Handbrake is just an interface that uses a compiler which can work with 8, 10 and 12 bits versions of x264/5, h264/5 Intel qs and h264/5 Nvidia hevc."

He referred me to this website,,it's all in a different language but you can look at the snapshots on how to encode 12 bits in Handbrake (assuming 12 bit footage)

https://medium.com/@souandrerodrigues/codecs-proxy-exportacao-e-muito-mais-f0baeae09a80

 

Musicvid wrote on 8/1/2020, 7:03 PM

@Julius_

Your friend is operating on an uninformed premise and indecipherable speculation . I won't be drawn into a three-way remote discussion, thank you. I will state the facts as I know them, one more time, and then I will be done. Regardless of your conclusions, thanks for respecting my experience.

The links below are those of several Handbrake developers, the guys who wrote the code, confirming my earlier statement;

Handbrake maintains an 8 bit video engine pipeline, which is the lowest common denominator, regardless of what you put in or take out.

https://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=40374&p=191669&hilit=pipeline#p191669

https://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=40093&p=190126&hilit=pipeline#p190126

https://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=39591&p=187166&hilit=pipeline#p187166

https://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=39530&p=186871&hilit=pipeline#p186871

Your friend's linked article, although well written, does not distinguish between input source bit depth, nor does it mention or address the pipeline issue. Please note: when using 10 bit source, and even 8 bit 4:4:4, the advantage of Handbrake's superior dithering algorithm was discovered by me and Lawrence and abundantly documented, fully a decade ago. It is an acknowledged and measurable advantage, and when you are encoding 10 bit source, I recommend it as your Handbrake input format.

In light of one developer previously proposing a mathematical advantage to rendering Handbrake's 8 bit pipeline to ten bit output, I ran my own controlled tests using their x265 encoder, and was unable to confirm any change to the signal I/O, save for identifying some added shadow noise to the output, ostensibly from random quantization in a nonlinear space. One man's signal is another man's noise.

I suggest you download the image for closer inspection.

Going forward, if your friend wants to put his statements in the form of Data, rather than jabberwocky, that would earn a lot more respect from me. If it looks better to you, by all means follow his instructions.

As far as this thread, though, I wish you the very best of continued learning and the confidence to make informed choices going forward. You have come a long way in that direction!

Julius_ wrote on 8/1/2020, 8:18 PM

@Musicvid Thank you...I also don't wish to discuss this issue with them because I don't have the experience..so my conclusion is based on your experience that I trust. I'm also in a position not to argue with the guy...I think I'm just going with the suggestions on this page (Voukoder tested great so far) and do the right thing (Say yes and let the results speak for themselves).

Thank you all for the wonderful valuable lesson learned.

 

Musicvid wrote on 8/1/2020, 8:56 PM

You're entirely welcome, and congratulations on trusting your own powers of observation. That, to me, is far more important than someone "agreeing" with me.

Also, posting some comparison clips following the two sets of instructions exactly might prove enlightening, but I can assure you the differences will be slight.