It won't. Microsoft, as of this date, is planning NO upgrade path for XP to the VISTA Encription. In fact, as MS does, upgrading to VISTA will be a requirement for this to work.

I can see that Microsoft is preparing to breed the first generation of Windows for which almost ALL users will install a crack to get around the protection. It won't be just the file swappers anymore. This time they'll push everyone to that point.

But, my question is, will we be able to play unprotected (ie. the stuff we make ourselves) media? If not, Microsoft will really be shooting themselves in the foot.

a google operating system is sounding better all the time...
I wonder if in the next decade we might be using a new operating system from a different company...


sean

Hey, its not a Microsoft problem this time.

It's a encryption/decrytion scheme called HDCP incorporated into both the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray standards. There's a discussion here:

http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=416078&Replies=33

HDCP is a content control problem dictated by Hollywood.

When developing the user restriction technology for Blu-Ray, it was decided that the display hardware has to communicate with the player in order to receive the full-resolution media data. If the player can't validate that the monitor is HDCP compliant, then the material is undersampled to SD.

They think that this will prevent a hacker from writing a driver to "look like" a physical monitor in order to copy the data in full-resolution.

If you bought a huge, expensive HD monitor in anticipation of getting a Blu-Ray DVD player to watch HD content from Disc, then you are SOL. What you have is a very expensive SD monitor because there are no HDCP compliant monitors on the market. (And when they are, they will cost even more). Even your own content that you create in Vegas and burn to Blu-Ray won't render to full-HD on a non-HDCP compliant screen.

Google HDCP and read for yourself.

Steve

OK,, so in laymans terms or fifth grade level,, what does all this mean ?

Bill, good to see you're still with us!

Thanks for information. It just substantiates what I've felt all along. So that's good news for me.

"there are no HDCP compliant monitors on the market"

Looking at the manual of my 65" Sony rear projection HDTV, it says "Can accommodate a copy protected digital connection (HDCP) to other devices (such as digital set-top boxes) that have compatible interfaces."

I bought the TV about 15 months ago, and I thought I remembered that it said it supported HDCP. I started to get worried when you made that statement above.

HDCP was hacked successfully in 2001, before it was implemented in devices. There are some apparently weak encryption aspects. (see Wikipedia for HDCP)

Dave

edited: My TV has a HD receiver built in, and not just a monitor. Maybe your comment was specific to monitors only.

You think you can avoid this by staying in SD land, forget it. The HD players will not play your SD disks. You'll have to upscale your SD to HD and then author to the new format, unless HD DVD wins out of course.

I guess I am lucky. I bought Hitachi 57F510 HDTV RPTV in September of 2004. It has HDMI input, and manual says it supports HDCP. And this is just the monitor. It doesn't have any HDTV tuner.

Bob, the truth of the matter is it ain't here yet. When it arrives and clients ask for it, then I'll make the necessary adjustments. Not until then, becuase it's still up in the air.

Jay...

Yeah, I still check in every day. Been spending most of my time with still photography, these days, a few gallery shows. Pondering that new XLHD, but, without distribution capability, it's rather useless to me. Guess I'm also waiting for some cheap, 150MB/sec terrabyte storage solution. hehehhe.

I seriously don't know where you guys are at but down here it's not just 'here', it's been been here for over six months. We have 7 HDV cameras and we're a pretty small company, I'd say in total there'd be at least 50 HDV cameras available for hire in Sydney and last weekend everyone one of them was rolling, not one to be had anywhere.
Most of it is being downscaled to 16:9 SD, a significant proportion of that as 4.2.2 but now we're hearing requests for transfer to HDCAM, people down here are now looking at HDCAM SR as the distribution standard, ouch!
The big danger in all this is assuming it's not happening. There's still enclaves here shooting BetaSP and delivering on SP and using linear editing suites however they're part of a shrinking market, they think they're safe because they've got a big market share, problem is the size of the overall market for that content is shrinking and they're sinking with it.
This is what happens with any shift in technology, just look at the fate of the big recording studios, where are they now. New blood adopts the new technology, free of the trapping of the past, builds a new market and siphons off the dollars that used to flow into the old market.
Just last weekend I was back doing my stint showing video in cinemas, one projectionist told me they've been told they've got three years left before 35mm goes, to be replaced by all digital projection. I think a wise man would be thinking about how to deliver content for that now or else the ramifications of that accross the whole media business.
How I see things work in so many fields is this. You wait for the client to ask for it but what happens is some young jock comes up to the client and says "Look, the guy you're using now is pretty good but have a look at what we can do for the same money", gives them some demo in HD or shows them how much fatser a car is over a horse or whatever. Now does the client come back to you and ask if you can do the same, no way, the young guns got them hooked, whips out the contract and your dead.
Bob.

"Look, the guy you're using now is pretty good but have a look at what we can do for the same money"

Dude your giving away some of my business model!

Move along people...nothing to see hear...please keep your hands off the HDV camera...move along....:)

Great comments, from one on the far fringes of the business:

"New blood adopts the new technology, free of the trapping of the past, builds a new market and siphons off the dollars that used to flow into the old market." Similar to Delta Airlines, Northwest, US Air, and the new competition of the new guys Jet Blue, etc. Or Apple, who with iTunes, could be "the" direct link between the producer and the consumer in audio as well as video. Hell with the establishment. I think the middlemen are going to get burned in a few years.

I am a software consultant for my main job and have been tinkering with video on the PC for quite a while. For fun, I started with my ATI All in Wonder (original version) capturing 640x480 on my 200mhz Pentium, about 9 years ago? No frame drops at the time. Funny how I get frame drops sometimes now on my dual 1Ghz. Bloated software (read...operating system).

I was a theatre projectionist from 1973 to 1978 in high school and college. How many people remember the arc lamps, Cinemascope lenses and the 20-minute reels? That's when I started loving films and moving images. We are on the verge of something new.

Now I have an FX1, a computer that can handle it, a 65" HDTV, some ideas, and no baggage. I will find my niche and hopefully it doesn't overlap those that don't push the envelope.

No offense meant to any viewpoint. We each choose our direction.

If it rings your bell, by all means...

I am still confused,, how does one deliver the format, I have been waiting for canon, they are now playing,, how is that 10\k cam going to deliver better video than my xl2, or 1, or pd170, or digibeta.

Well it can deliver what can look pretty damn close to what you get out of a digibeta camera at a fraction of the cost. Bear in mind that a large part of any good cameras price is the glass and nothing has changed in that area, good glass costs, also 2/3" CCDs are always going to beat 1/3", simple physics.
So this doesn't mean the end of high end kit, for those who have to get the footage at any cost for say ENG then those cameras will still rule the roost. What these new cameras give you is the means if you're prepared to substitute time, care and learning for capital outlay to record a comparable image under favourable conditions.
To specifically answer your question, the HDV cameras are recording more data than say a PD170. That data can be put to good use in post to produce a better SD image than you'll get out of the 170, probably more so for those working in NTSC than in PAL. So even if you're delivering SD then there's advantages to be had. There's also a whole range of new issues to deal with as well, that's why I said 'CAN', depending on your shooting style and what you shoot you might get dramatic improvements or you might go quite the other way as well, certainly HDV is not as goof proof as DV.
Bob.

No offense meant to any viewpoint. We each choose our direction.

None taken... not from me, anyway. And I agree with the "to each his own concept." That fact of the matter is HD is still not a viable medium, not yet. Yes, it will be, to be sure, but that time has not arrived and the exact date of its arrival has yet to be determined. When the dust has settled and the standards have been established across the board, that's when we'll become involved.

Like someone else said recently, he likes living on the bleeding edge. I don't--can't afford it. So... to each his own.

"I bought the TV about 15 months ago, and I thought I remembered that it said it supported HDCP. I started to get worried when you made that statement above."

My info was from a recent issue of "Post" magazine which is largely a Hollywood publication. I have no Hollywood connections, but it's neat to read how some of the current movies and commercials are shot.

Steve

There's a concept that most artistes don't get. It's called Cost of Ownership or COO in the business vernacular. When the COO exceeds the profits that are earned, or at least consumes a high percentage of the profit earned, the business is doomed to failure. And this is regardless of whether the newest macho man on the block is out-competing you or not. I 've yet to see a COO analysis of HDV vs. DV, however, I'd venture to say that the COO for HDV is quite a bit more than DV. Every time I look at the price of upgrading my multiple computer systems to HDV, I'm boggled by the cost of 150 MB/sec hard drive storage alone. This recent development of protection technology is simply an iceberg in the sea of development of HDV. To coin an overused metaphor, that iceberg is big enough to sink MY ship. As long as I'm making enough $$$ to sustain my habit with DV, I'll continue. When the dust settles from the develoment of HDV, I'll make the move, one time, minimizing my non-recurring COO. It's a simple business decision. If one feels that they can afford all the false starts, annual equipment obsolesence, and time lost in pre-production equipment, in order to stay the big dog, all my best wishes and good luck go to you.

I suspect many on this forum will swear to the better quality of down-rezzed HDV to SD than straight across DV. I submit that the XL2 DV image is competitive, at least it has been for me, with down-rezzed HDV. And the COO is a pitance compared with the hardware needed for HDV capture and render. If, and when, my market share demands HDV or downrezzed HDV, I'll bite that bullet. Until then, the bleedin' cuttin' edge is simply testosterone IMHO. No insults intended.

If you work for someone else, things like COO, return on investment and cash flow aren't gonna be your concern. But, then you have other things to worry about when someone pays your way. If you work for yourself, and year end profit loss statements are important to you, I strongly urge you to consider COO. HDV still is not ready for prime time.

Well put, Bill. That explains it clearly and succinctly.

Actually, I need to thank all those who, as Bill put it, live on the "bleedin' cuttin' edge" and pay for all the R&D. That way, when those of us who are more fiscally conservative do move into HD, the cost will have dropped significantly. Much appreciated!