Multicam> Expand to Multiple Tracks: Workflow q and Bug r

AVsupport wrote on 3/1/2020, 10:16 PM

Brainstrust, I've shot a Yoga vid with a single cam / multiple angles. Needless to say the timecode doesn't match, and the duration of the sequences are different every time since this isn't a music vid.

After I synchronized the start point, there's a need for some tracks to be manually realigned during the course of time. Ideally I would like to use the multicam viewer as you have it 'Multicamera Track' in the in the video preview window for this to show all angles, and trim the offending video track event without shifting the rest of the tracks simultaneously.

When I choose to 'Expand to Multiple Tracks', the video preview window only shows the active take, and I seemingly cannot change the active take selected on the timeline after the fact. Also, when I use the 'Slip Tool' on the offending video track, all tracks slip. Well I guess this might be intended but this is not helping.

Also, every time I change from Expanded Tracks to Multicamera Track and the other way around, the Track FX become <enabled, default>. In my case I have loaded up <default> with a stack of enabled FX I usually use, but in this case it is annoying as you have to turn them off every time you change the view. Settings are not being remembered (bug).

I don't get why I need to have the 'Multicamera Track' as a separate instance, could that not simply be a special parent track that you can expand/collapse on the timeline if you need?

Any good tips & tricks for workarounds are welcome, I tried tuts, search and youtube with no great results. cheers!

 

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

32GB (4x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

Crucial BX500 1TB EDIT 3D NAND SATA 2.5-inch SSD

2x 4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

Comments

Former user wrote on 3/1/2020, 10:34 PM

The intent of the multicamera operation is to mimic a live production where you switch between cameras that are in sync. It is not really an "editing" operation in the sense that you move things around. I would suggest you sync all shots first before using multicamera mode.
Effects are lost when you go to multicamera unless you have them as media effx. It is not really a bug, just the way it works.

AVsupport wrote on 3/2/2020, 12:36 AM

VP is an editing software, first and foremost, and not a live switching software, so I hope I'm not asking to much if I want to edit. The multicam feature IS useful, yes, but unnecessarily cumbersome, and 'the way it works' to loose timeline settings even though you remain in the same Mode as being 'Multicamera Editing' is uncool. For me, this is either a bug, or not working as intended, or working badly.

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

32GB (4x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

Crucial BX500 1TB EDIT 3D NAND SATA 2.5-inch SSD

2x 4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

Former user wrote on 3/2/2020, 8:19 AM

It is neither a bug nor not working as intended. It is just not working the way you expect. You can make suggestion for changing it.

max8 wrote on 3/2/2020, 12:00 PM

I would indeed appreciate a behaviour where the source tracks and the multi camera track don't depend so much on each other (e.g. cuts applied to all tracks when expanded to multiple tracks). Syncing (and other operations) would be much easier if that would be handled like in Premiere.

set wrote on 3/2/2020, 3:42 PM

Multicam workflow in Vegas is a further implementation of 'Takes' feature, so, might not work easily or as you expect.

I had using it few times many years ago..., but due to confusing workflow after multicam mixing and the need to 'shift' the shot timing, in the end I editing multicam manually.

 

http://vegaspro.helpmax.net/en/using-vegas-software/editing-events-on-the-timeline/using-takes-as-alternate-versions-of-events/

Old tutorial of 'Takes':

Once you understand the basic workflow of using Takes, I believe you can use Multicam and knew how to deal with it after doing the mixing.

Last changed by set on 3/2/2020, 3:46 PM, changed a total of 5 times.

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OldSmoke wrote on 3/2/2020, 9:22 PM

Brainstrust, I've shot a Yoga vid with a single cam / multiple angles. Needless to say the timecode doesn't match, and the duration of the sequences are different every time since this isn't a music vid.

After I synchronized the start point, there's a need for some tracks to be manually realigned during the course of time. Ideally I would like to use the multicam viewer as you have it 'Multicamera Track' in the in the video preview window for this to show all angles, and trim the offending video track event without shifting the rest of the tracks simultaneously.

When I choose to 'Expand to Multiple Tracks', the video preview window only shows the active take, and I seemingly cannot change the active take selected on the timeline after the fact. Also, when I use the 'Slip Tool' on the offending video track, all tracks slip. Well I guess this might be intended but this is not helping.

Also, every time I change from Expanded Tracks to Multicamera Track and the other way around, the Track FX become <enabled, default>. In my case I have loaded up <default> with a stack of enabled FX I usually use, but in this case it is annoying as you have to turn them off every time you change the view. Settings are not being remembered (bug).

I don't get why I need to have the 'Multicamera Track' as a separate instance, could that not simply be a special parent track that you can expand/collapse on the timeline if you need?

Any good tips & tricks for workarounds are welcome, I tried tuts, search and youtube with no great results. cheers!

 

@AVsupport The trick is, before making the multicam track and for the purpose of aligning tracks visually, use track motion for each track to make yourself a video wall, Vegasaur has a feature with exactly the same name. Once you are done aligning, safe the project under a different name as a backup. After that, do a basic color matching of each track on the Media FX level. Once done safe the project again. Now you have a project to fall back if something goes wrong in the multicam project. Finally, remove the track motion from every track and crate the multicam track. Media FXs will remain intact. That is how I did all of my multicam projects.

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AVsupport wrote on 3/2/2020, 11:57 PM

Thanks @max8 , @set and @OldSmoke for your contributions! Looks like this feature has been around since 2011 and hadn't seen much love & care since? It's definitely got potential, especially if you could use 'Expanded Track' in conjunction with the "Multicam Preview' and Active Take Selection mechanism. Will need to experiment if 'unlinking' would allow clip-slip adjustments, this would be a great help.

If someone else has any experience with this, or ideas as to how to overcome the current restrictions, please feel free to chip in!

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

32GB (4x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

Crucial BX500 1TB EDIT 3D NAND SATA 2.5-inch SSD

2x 4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

sonicvision wrote on 10/18/2020, 3:31 PM

@AVsupport The trick is, before making the multicam track and for the purpose of aligning tracks visually, use track motion for each track to make yourself a video wall, Vegasaur has a feature with exactly the same name. Once you are done aligning, safe the project under a different name as a backup. After that, do a basic color matching of each track on the Media FX level. Once done safe the project again. Now you have a project to fall back if something goes wrong in the multicam project. Finally, remove the track motion from every track and crate the multicam track. Media FXs will remain intact. That is how I did all of my multicam projects.

"use track motion for each track to make yourself a video wall" - awesome tip! Glad to find this before really starting my multicam editing as this much better for my work flow. Thanks!

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 10/18/2020, 9:40 PM

I do almost the same thing with the pip-fx. Another handy trick I've discovered for my own shoots is to film my cellphone with a stopwatch countdown displayed simultaneously on all cameras and sync on a transition of the seconds count... someday I'll have to breakdown and buy myself a digital clapboard.