Problems with Mercalli V4 Plugin Vegas Pro 14

Cornico wrote on 10/21/2016, 3:34 PM

Testing this plugin its not working as I expected.
I made a test between the Deshaker script in Vegas Pro 13, the default stabilizer of Vegas Pro 14 and The Mercalli v4 plugin of Vegas Pro 14.
All used at default settings and compared to the footage:

https://vimeo.com/188307023

When I render a default stabilisation of the plugin to another framerate or resolution than the projectsettings after analysing, this is the result:

https://vimeo.com/188350435

What am I doing wrong?

Last changed by Cornico on 10/21/2016, 5:07 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

m.v.g.

Marten

Camera :Panasonic X900, GoPro Hero 5 Black
Desktop :ASRock Z270 PRO4, W 10, i7 7700 4,2 Mhz, 16 GB RAM, 3750 GB HDD(4) and SSD(1),NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti(4 GB), Intel HD Graphics 320 (Max 64 GB) , VMS 10,12,13 and 14 Pl.,VPro 10,12,13,14,15
Laptop   :Asus, W 10, i7 7700HQ, 16 GB RAM, 1256 GB HDD(2), GeF. GT 1050 (2 GB) + Intel HD Graphics (2GB), VMS 14 Pl., VPro 14 and 15
TV         :LG 4K 55EG960V  

Website :https://www.vegas-videoforum.nl

Comments

thierry-longval wrote on 11/26/2016, 6:20 AM

I had in mind to purchase Vegas Pro 14 especially for the Mercalli Plugin (I'm currently try the Trial version Build 201). 
I discovered also that after rendering, the result is really shaky wheras it is not the case in the preview window.
I spent 4 hours to try to understand why and how to work arround this problem and I did not find any solution.
In a general way I found lot of bugs with this Mercalli plugin integration (interleave lines in the preview if I use the "Best result" preview option) and many other strange bugs that forced me to remove the video from the timeline and redo the operation again).

I suspend any purchase of Vegas Pro 14 for now until this problem is solved!
Sorry to not be able to help on that !

xberk wrote on 11/26/2016, 10:13 AM

>>When I render a default stabilisation of the plugin to another framerate or resolution than the projectsettings after analysing, this is the result:

Can you be more specific.  What were the project settings?  What were the render settings -- render template?  I'm not having this issue with Mercalli 4 plugin but I normally try to render to the project settings.  But I can say that the Mercalli plugin is not entirely solid.  Sometimes unexpectedly the  "ANALYSIS" banner pops up.

By the way, the Deshaker script in V13 looks very good.  But so far, for me, Mercalli 4 is giving good results at the default setting.  

thierry-longval wrote on 11/26/2016, 10:41 AM

Hi xberk, sorry to jump again in this thread, but I can bring some updates of my tests.

In my case, as I need to mix videos from Sony Cx700 (Full HD 50i) and videos from GoPro Hero 4 (Full HD 25p Wide).
So my project is set to HD 1080-50i (1920x1080; 25,000 fps)
The stabilization I try to do is for Gopro videos, and you are right, there is a difference with the project settings (interleaved pictures) and the Gopro footages (plain picture).
However, sometimes it is working fine, and I've tried to understand what is going wrong. I've also understood that each time you change a small thing in the timeline arround this Gopro video (for example, change the duration of the clip), you'll have to launch again the Mercalli analysis button. If not, the result is bad!
Maybe I should do the test with Gopro videos converted by GoPro Studio first instead of trying to use direclty native MP4 Gopro footage.
I will give more updates when I find more stuff.

Cornico wrote on 11/26/2016, 11:13 AM

>>When I render a default stabilisation of the plugin to another framerate or resolution than the projectsettings after analysing, this is the result:

Can you be more specific.  What were the project settings?  What were the render settings -- render template?    

First video with the comparising of the different methodes the projectsettings were

rendertemplate

Second video with the strange behaviour of Mercalli the same projectsettings and as rendertemplate the next picture. Video is the render result after stabilisation.

 

 

 

Last changed by Cornico on 11/26/2016, 11:26 AM, changed a total of 3 times.

m.v.g.

Marten

Camera :Panasonic X900, GoPro Hero 5 Black
Desktop :ASRock Z270 PRO4, W 10, i7 7700 4,2 Mhz, 16 GB RAM, 3750 GB HDD(4) and SSD(1),NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti(4 GB), Intel HD Graphics 320 (Max 64 GB) , VMS 10,12,13 and 14 Pl.,VPro 10,12,13,14,15
Laptop   :Asus, W 10, i7 7700HQ, 16 GB RAM, 1256 GB HDD(2), GeF. GT 1050 (2 GB) + Intel HD Graphics (2GB), VMS 14 Pl., VPro 14 and 15
TV         :LG 4K 55EG960V  

Website :https://www.vegas-videoforum.nl

Kinvermark wrote on 11/26/2016, 10:09 PM

Mercalli v4 does not like it if you change the frame rate. In my experience, your should keep your media, project settings, and rendered  output at all the same frame rate.   If you need to mix media of different frame rates or change the frame rate on output, I would suggest  first working with the clips you need stabilized, render out a stabilized version to a suitable intermediate codec (I like cineform, but there are lots of alternatives), then import those clips into your mixed media project and continue editing from there.

Cornico wrote on 11/27/2016, 4:38 AM

That was a month ago also my conclusion and if the result was better than my other means of stabilising, maybe I should chose that workaround.
But with the default settings of the default stabilizer in Vegas Pro 14 proved to be as good as Mercalli 4 I shall not use the workarond from the latter.

m.v.g.

Marten

Camera :Panasonic X900, GoPro Hero 5 Black
Desktop :ASRock Z270 PRO4, W 10, i7 7700 4,2 Mhz, 16 GB RAM, 3750 GB HDD(4) and SSD(1),NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti(4 GB), Intel HD Graphics 320 (Max 64 GB) , VMS 10,12,13 and 14 Pl.,VPro 10,12,13,14,15
Laptop   :Asus, W 10, i7 7700HQ, 16 GB RAM, 1256 GB HDD(2), GeF. GT 1050 (2 GB) + Intel HD Graphics (2GB), VMS 14 Pl., VPro 14 and 15
TV         :LG 4K 55EG960V  

Website :https://www.vegas-videoforum.nl

Dexcon wrote on 11/27/2016, 5:49 AM

Mercalli 4 SAL is great, but the Mercalli 4 plug-in for Vegas Pro 13 is terrible - in my case, it adds verticle judder to the image rather than reducing it.  It even adds verticle judder to a jpg still image - how crazy is that!

Kinvermark wrote on 11/27/2016, 11:21 AM

With all respect, I still think you guys are doing something wrong.  I get great results from mercalli v4.  Why would mercalli 4 be worse than mercalli 2 (the one in vegas)?   And why would you apply stabilization to a still image?  That is a totally artificial test - not real world usage  - so you shouldn't draw any conclusions from that.

 

Cornico wrote on 11/27/2016, 1:48 PM

With all respect, I still think you guys are doing something wrong. 

My starting question in this topic was

What am I doing wrong?

So you can help me out?

 

m.v.g.

Marten

Camera :Panasonic X900, GoPro Hero 5 Black
Desktop :ASRock Z270 PRO4, W 10, i7 7700 4,2 Mhz, 16 GB RAM, 3750 GB HDD(4) and SSD(1),NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti(4 GB), Intel HD Graphics 320 (Max 64 GB) , VMS 10,12,13 and 14 Pl.,VPro 10,12,13,14,15
Laptop   :Asus, W 10, i7 7700HQ, 16 GB RAM, 1256 GB HDD(2), GeF. GT 1050 (2 GB) + Intel HD Graphics (2GB), VMS 14 Pl., VPro 14 and 15
TV         :LG 4K 55EG960V  

Website :https://www.vegas-videoforum.nl

Kinvermark wrote on 11/27/2016, 3:49 PM

Hi Cornico,

I am happy to try, as long as we all understand that I am not here to defend Prodad, and obviously I am not a software support guy, just another user.

That said, when I look at your footage, it looks like what I get in two situations: 1) frame rate changes, and 2) problems with mercalli interpreting interlacing.  I can MAKE my footage judder & shake by manipulating these variables, and conversely that is how I think you can make it work.

So, we already discussed frame rates: the short answer is media  / project / render should all stay the same unless you do an intermediate to "bake" the stabilisation in .

For interlacing problems I have found that if I put HDV footage on the timeline matched to this footage (60i, upper) I will get poor results and judder in some cases.  BUT if I temporarily change the project to progressive, then let mercalli analyse, it works great, even if I then change the project properties back to 60i upper.  Can you try that too?

 

 

 

Cornico wrote on 11/27/2016, 3:57 PM

Hi Kinvermark,

I know the limitations of Mercalli and I found the same as you do.
So what I do wrong is that I for the render not use the exact properties of the source and the project.
The other ways of stabilising I presented also in the first video don't care about that limitation and therefore I'm disappointed in Mercalli 4 as plugin. The default stabilizer (Mercalli 2) suites me better.

m.v.g.

Marten

Camera :Panasonic X900, GoPro Hero 5 Black
Desktop :ASRock Z270 PRO4, W 10, i7 7700 4,2 Mhz, 16 GB RAM, 3750 GB HDD(4) and SSD(1),NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti(4 GB), Intel HD Graphics 320 (Max 64 GB) , VMS 10,12,13 and 14 Pl.,VPro 10,12,13,14,15
Laptop   :Asus, W 10, i7 7700HQ, 16 GB RAM, 1256 GB HDD(2), GeF. GT 1050 (2 GB) + Intel HD Graphics (2GB), VMS 14 Pl., VPro 14 and 15
TV         :LG 4K 55EG960V  

Website :https://www.vegas-videoforum.nl

Kinvermark wrote on 11/27/2016, 8:19 PM

I can certainly see that in cases where you want to change to a different frame rate,  that mercalli 4 is more of a hassle than mercalli 2. 

My argument for using mercalli 4 is that I cannot get anywhere near as good stabilization when using mercalli 2, mercalli 2 has to be applied as a media fx to the whole clip (unless you first make a subclip),  and it is slow slow slow.  So for me taking the extra step to render to an intermediate (only in those special cases) really is not a big deal.

The last thing to clarify:  those original videos you posted at the start of this thread are no longer an accurate representation of mercalli 4. Right?  If you set things up the way mercalli wants you can get much better results. Right?

Cornico wrote on 11/28/2016, 3:14 AM

The last thing to clarify:  those original videos you posted at the start of this thread are no longer an accurate representation of mercalli 4. Right?  If you set things up the way mercalli wants you can get much better results. Right?

It's the Mercalli Plugin that comes with Vegas Pro 14's Pro version and to compare things I only use default settings like I said,

All used at default settings and compared to the footage

m.v.g.

Marten

Camera :Panasonic X900, GoPro Hero 5 Black
Desktop :ASRock Z270 PRO4, W 10, i7 7700 4,2 Mhz, 16 GB RAM, 3750 GB HDD(4) and SSD(1),NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti(4 GB), Intel HD Graphics 320 (Max 64 GB) , VMS 10,12,13 and 14 Pl.,VPro 10,12,13,14,15
Laptop   :Asus, W 10, i7 7700HQ, 16 GB RAM, 1256 GB HDD(2), GeF. GT 1050 (2 GB) + Intel HD Graphics (2GB), VMS 14 Pl., VPro 14 and 15
TV         :LG 4K 55EG960V  

Website :https://www.vegas-videoforum.nl

JoelsonForte wrote on 9/26/2017, 8:54 PM

I can certainly see that in cases where you want to change to a different frame rate,  that mercalli 4 is more of a hassle than mercalli 2. 

My argument for using mercalli 4 is that I cannot get anywhere near as good stabilization when using mercalli 2, mercalli 2 has to be applied as a media fx to the whole clip (unless you first make a subclip),  and it is slow slow slow.  So for me taking the extra step to render to an intermediate (only in those special cases) really is not a big deal.

The last thing to clarify:  those original videos you posted at the start of this thread are no longer an accurate representation of mercalli 4. Right?  If you set things up the way mercalli wants you can get much better results. Right?

 

Thanks Kinvermark. Thanks to your observations. I was able to solve my problems with Mercalli. He had trepidations with interlaced videos. Now I set the project to progressive before using Mercalli and when render I change the project again to interlaced. Thank you very much! I also noticed that if you use Mercalli through Vegasaur Batch Render, the analysis takes place correctly without having to set up the project interlaced in progressive.