Radeon VII with Vegas 16... wow!

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 5/31/2019, 7:00 PM

Just pulled the trigger on a Radeon VII video board plus a 9900k i9 and what a combo. Cpu is air cooled with an NH-D15 and video card is stock air cooled too. Red Car comes in at 15 seconds compared to 25 seconds on my e5 Xeon paired with an old RX580. Curiously a NUC I built 6 mos ago beats it by 4 secs transcoding a 57 minute video from mxf to mp4 with only trims and splices but no fx... I'm guessing because the Nuc's 4gb Vega GPU is bonded into its otherwise unremarkable 8809g cpu; transcoding between cpu and gpu must be happening without even hitting the pcie bus. But the real shocker to me is the transcoding time I clocked for a 3 HD camera merge with color correction on each individual camera track. That's a step in my workflow after choosing camera angle crossfades on a multicam track and expanding it back out to 3 tracks and applying fx individually to match color shot on different cameras having different color depths. Almost 2 hours rendering time on the old system down to 28 minutes on the new one! Which is even quicker than the next step of transcoding trimmed and spliced mxf to mp4 deliverable which includes opening screens, titles, and rolling credits. This also resolves another mystery to me... my renders of a really long festival that was shot without pause from opening to intermission kept crashing at around the 90 minute point on my old system if I used gpu. Turning off gpu worked but rendering to mxf took over 7 hours. My more practical workaround was to break the 110 minute run into 2 adjacent 55 minute regions and render them separately w/gpu then glue them back together with grouping in the next step. I thought it was Vegas screwing up but it rendered flawlessly without splitting with the Radeon VII. So my new theory is that my RX580 with 8gb of internal memory ran out of table space which the VII with 2x more memory did not. Other observations... the Xeon still rules on floating point but Vegas must use only integer arithmetic. Also, increased cpu and ddr4 memory speed have less impact than I hoped. Same with the m.2 pcie ssd; I got identical run times on Red Car putting everything on an internal 2tb Samsung m.2 pcie 870 EVO as I did putting it on a 2 tb Samsung EVO 850 2.5-Inch SATA III drive connected to a sata3 port. And for the 57 minute color-correction render, putting everything onto and rendering to pcie m.2 only showed a 20 second improvement over the sata ssd.

Comments

TheRhino wrote on 6/1/2019, 10:19 AM

Congrats on a fine rig! I'm a big 9900K fan right now... My liquid-cooled 9900K @4.9 ghz & Vega 64 liquid-cooled also get 15s on the Red Car test & if I bump it to 5.0 ghz I can get 13s-14s... Guys who spent 2-3X as much for their CPUs can't beat our scores... Also, your Radeon VII's increased compute & memory capabilities may show a bump in performance in future Vegas updates...

IMO the 9900K offers the best bang/buck until we see how Zen2 pans-out... I'm getting 2X the render speeds over my 4.0 Xeons on almost every project. 4K multi-cam is a MUCH better experience. Not including M.2's I only spent $1350 USD to upgrade CPU, Cooler, MB, GPU, & DDR4. In 2011ish I spent $1000 on just the 6-core I7-980X CPU to double my render speeds over a 4-core i7-920... IMO 2-3 workstations are always better than 1... I have 2 more workstations to update, so bang/buck trumps paying a lot more for mere 10% gains, etc... I get more done on 3 very fast workstations vs. having 1 elite system that kills my budget, so I'm very happy with this $500 CPU!

NOVA BENCHMARKS:
CPU 9900K @ 4.9ghz = 1808
GPU VEGA64 = 1207
DISK M.2 RAID0 R/Writes = 3320/1966 Mb/s

CINEBENCH:
CPU 9900K @ 4.9ghz = 2127 (6-core Xeon @ 4Ghz = <900)
Single Core = 213 (Xeon = 112)
OpenGL (Vega64) = 183.27 (Xeon's RX 570 = 73.85 fps)

Vegas 11 Demo - Red Car Test = 14s

Last changed by TheRhino on 6/1/2019, 12:03 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

Workstation D with $1,350 USD of upgrades in April, 2019
--$500 9900K @ 5.0ghz
--$140 Corsair i150i liquid cooling with 360mm radiator (3 fans)
--$200 open box Asus Z390 WS (PLX chip manages 4/5 PCIe slots)
--$160 32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3000
--$350 refurbished, but like-new Radeon Vega 64 LQ (liquid cooled)

Renders Vegas11 "Red Car Test" (QSV) in 13s-14s when clocked at 5.0 ghz
(note: BOTH onboard Intel & Vega64 show utilization during QSV renders...)

Source Video1 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 on motherboard in RAID0
Source Video2 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 (1) via U.2 adapter & (1) on separate PCIe card
Target Video1 = 32TB RAID0--(4) 8TB SATA hot-swap drives on PCIe RAID10 card

10G Network using cheap Mellanox2 Adapters
Copy of Work Files, Source & Output Video, OS Images on QNAP 653b NAS
Blackmagic Decklink PCie card for capturing from tape, etc.
(2) internal BR Burners connected via USB 3.0 to SATA adapters
Old Cooler Master CM Stacker ATX case with (13) 5.25" front drive-bays holds & cools everything.

Workstations A, B & C are 6-core 4.0ghz Xeon 5660 or I7 980x on Asus P6T6 motherboards.

Grazie wrote on 6/1/2019, 10:56 AM

@TheRhino - How would you think that proposed Rig I’ve posted should, next yours?

Grazie

PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti

PC 10 64-bit 64gb * Intel® Core™i9 - 3.3GHz * 40Gb NVIDIA  GeForce RTX 2070

Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX60HS Bridge

TheRhino wrote on 6/1/2019, 11:54 AM

@Howard-Vigorita ...kept cashing around the 90 minute mark... my RX580 with 8gb... ran out of table space...

The length of the video & amount of GPU memory are not interconnected... Unlike games, Vegas does not require a lot of GPU memory to process video... For instance, if your Radeon 7 only had 8GB memory like my VEGA 64 you would not see a performance hit in Vegas. (Currently Vega 64 & Radeon 7 performance is very similar in this version of Vegas...) I have found that some imported videos cause certain editions of Vegas to crash near the same frame every time... However, if I imported that footage onto a different workstation with different GPU, drivers, etc. I sometimes did not encounter the same problem. Hence my belief that more than 1 workstation are required if you are doing paid work. Keep those old systems as backups! Sometimes the error will pop-up on the new one & not the old one...

@Grazie I answered your question on your forum...

Last changed by TheRhino on 6/1/2019, 1:28 PM, changed a total of 4 times.

Workstation D with $1,350 USD of upgrades in April, 2019
--$500 9900K @ 5.0ghz
--$140 Corsair i150i liquid cooling with 360mm radiator (3 fans)
--$200 open box Asus Z390 WS (PLX chip manages 4/5 PCIe slots)
--$160 32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3000
--$350 refurbished, but like-new Radeon Vega 64 LQ (liquid cooled)

Renders Vegas11 "Red Car Test" (QSV) in 13s-14s when clocked at 5.0 ghz
(note: BOTH onboard Intel & Vega64 show utilization during QSV renders...)

Source Video1 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 on motherboard in RAID0
Source Video2 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 (1) via U.2 adapter & (1) on separate PCIe card
Target Video1 = 32TB RAID0--(4) 8TB SATA hot-swap drives on PCIe RAID10 card

10G Network using cheap Mellanox2 Adapters
Copy of Work Files, Source & Output Video, OS Images on QNAP 653b NAS
Blackmagic Decklink PCie card for capturing from tape, etc.
(2) internal BR Burners connected via USB 3.0 to SATA adapters
Old Cooler Master CM Stacker ATX case with (13) 5.25" front drive-bays holds & cools everything.

Workstations A, B & C are 6-core 4.0ghz Xeon 5660 or I7 980x on Asus P6T6 motherboards.

Kinvermark wrote on 6/1/2019, 1:53 PM

@TheRhinoI

I am curious about your workflow with multiple workstations. Can you give us a quick run-down of how you organize your jobs to use multiple workstations? Are you using some kind of "multi-head display" (not sure what this is actually called) so you can switch between cpu's from one keyboard / monitor / mouse set ?

 

TheRhino wrote on 6/1/2019, 6:24 PM

@TheRhinoI

I am curious about your workflow with multiple workstations....Are you using some kind of "multi-head display....

(4) 27" 4K monitors arranged 2X2 on swing-arm mounts are attached to the wall behind an 8' counter that is also suspended from the wall by removable shelf brackets (no legs to bump into...). A 4.0 Ghz Xeon & older Mac Pro share the top 2 monitors. My new 9900K uses the bottom 2 plus a 1080p monitor off to one side (3 across for the 9900K). Each has a wireless keyboard/mouse that I move to where I need when I am editing...

Another Xeon & (2) 1080p monitors are on another nearby counter along with various playback decks. The Xeons have Blackmagic cards to import various types of older analog/digital media clients may send. If it is on a MiniDV tape, etc. it takes an hour per tape to transfer... In comparison, SD cards, etc. from clients or our own cameras can plug-into any of the 3 & copied from there.

Some clients are still regularly requesting multiple file types or media types. A company may still want a DVD of a safety training video to play in a break room, etc. to ensure that all employees actually watch it... In these cases I may render the intermediate file & MP4 on the 9900K but author & burn the discs on the other workstations. Also, I sometimes pull-up older projects on a different system, make customer-requested edits, and let that system render-out the files vs. taking time-away from my current project... It also helps me to mentally focus on what needs to be done on each project/workstation... Some customers pay extra to expedite their work & in these cases having 3 workstations available helps me to meet their deadlines. I have actually had all 3 rendering-away different parts of the same lengthy project. Those are just some examples. I needed all 3 when I was doing this full-time, but it also helps me to make more per hour now that I am only part-time...

Last changed by TheRhino on 6/1/2019, 6:27 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Workstation D with $1,350 USD of upgrades in April, 2019
--$500 9900K @ 5.0ghz
--$140 Corsair i150i liquid cooling with 360mm radiator (3 fans)
--$200 open box Asus Z390 WS (PLX chip manages 4/5 PCIe slots)
--$160 32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3000
--$350 refurbished, but like-new Radeon Vega 64 LQ (liquid cooled)

Renders Vegas11 "Red Car Test" (QSV) in 13s-14s when clocked at 5.0 ghz
(note: BOTH onboard Intel & Vega64 show utilization during QSV renders...)

Source Video1 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 on motherboard in RAID0
Source Video2 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 (1) via U.2 adapter & (1) on separate PCIe card
Target Video1 = 32TB RAID0--(4) 8TB SATA hot-swap drives on PCIe RAID10 card

10G Network using cheap Mellanox2 Adapters
Copy of Work Files, Source & Output Video, OS Images on QNAP 653b NAS
Blackmagic Decklink PCie card for capturing from tape, etc.
(2) internal BR Burners connected via USB 3.0 to SATA adapters
Old Cooler Master CM Stacker ATX case with (13) 5.25" front drive-bays holds & cools everything.

Workstations A, B & C are 6-core 4.0ghz Xeon 5660 or I7 980x on Asus P6T6 motherboards.

Kinvermark wrote on 6/1/2019, 6:43 PM

Thanks for taking the time to explain. Sounds like, for the most part, a single "job" is done on a single workstation rather than moving from one to another as a job progresses. I imagine there are exceptions.

Was it you that was posting info about 10Gb networks? Presumably that is what you would use to move files quickly from workstation to workstation when needed.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 6/2/2019, 3:51 AM

@TheRhino... The length of the video & amount of GPU memory are not interconnected...

You're right. Just tried the same long render on the NUC whose onboard Vega only has 4gb of memory and it completed error free... fwiw, all 3 machines have the same Radeon Adrenalin 2019 v19.5.2 software installed. Updated the attachment on my original post to reflect the new NUC timing and some other Red Car timings I ran with and without gpu to get a sense of where the big improvements are coming from. Also got as low as 13 sec rendering to a 30p mp4. If a water-cooled version of the VII comes out I'll probably jump in and get my feet wet (ha, ha, only figuratively I hope) and move the air-cooled one I have now to my xeon machine.

TheRhino wrote on 6/2/2019, 8:20 AM

@Howard-Vigorita If the error is a random point somewhere after an hour of rendering, your 9900K or GPU may be overheating an hour into a render... You may want to watch your temps & lower clocks... Mine will do the Red Car test in 13s-14s @ 5.0 ghz but I think I will keep it at 4.9 ghz long-term to keep my temps down...

If the error occurs almost always on the same frame, there may be a problem with how Vegas sees the original footage or FX at that same point. I have cut-out offending footage, reloaded it, and re-applied FX just to that point. I have also reloaded entire project from another working system and sampled rendering just the area that causes issues.

As a last resort I have reinstalled Vegas and/or an entirely fresh OS install on the troublesome system... Windows sometimes installs updates at different times on different machines so I do everything I can to prevent Windows form auto-loading updates... However, with Win10 you have to eventually install many of them...

Workstation D with $1,350 USD of upgrades in April, 2019
--$500 9900K @ 5.0ghz
--$140 Corsair i150i liquid cooling with 360mm radiator (3 fans)
--$200 open box Asus Z390 WS (PLX chip manages 4/5 PCIe slots)
--$160 32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3000
--$350 refurbished, but like-new Radeon Vega 64 LQ (liquid cooled)

Renders Vegas11 "Red Car Test" (QSV) in 13s-14s when clocked at 5.0 ghz
(note: BOTH onboard Intel & Vega64 show utilization during QSV renders...)

Source Video1 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 on motherboard in RAID0
Source Video2 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 (1) via U.2 adapter & (1) on separate PCIe card
Target Video1 = 32TB RAID0--(4) 8TB SATA hot-swap drives on PCIe RAID10 card

10G Network using cheap Mellanox2 Adapters
Copy of Work Files, Source & Output Video, OS Images on QNAP 653b NAS
Blackmagic Decklink PCie card for capturing from tape, etc.
(2) internal BR Burners connected via USB 3.0 to SATA adapters
Old Cooler Master CM Stacker ATX case with (13) 5.25" front drive-bays holds & cools everything.

Workstations A, B & C are 6-core 4.0ghz Xeon 5660 or I7 980x on Asus P6T6 motherboards.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 6/2/2019, 11:28 AM

@TheRhino No problems at all with the new machine. Have not overclocked it yet, just set it to xmp and tweaked fan profiles in bios and radeon. Error only came up on the xeon w/rx580... probably needs a firmware update but it's sitting next to the motherboard on the bench till I round up another case. Btw, if you encounter a frame-level glitch like you described you might try just deleting the vegas-made sfk file associated with the clip before re-copying the clip from backup or original camera media.