V17 drops performance vs V16 (XAVC problem)

Radomir wrote on 12/4/2019, 4:58 PM

Hi. I notice that V17 pro can't play movies from FS7 smooth as V16. File is mxf 1920x1080 422 50p and framerate in vegas is 25-35. This same files played in V16 has beatiful 50fps. On events I have only Color Correction and Curves, nothing special.

Both show about 60% CPU, but V16 20% GPU, while V17 only 10%. I view on "preview (full)" in 1920x1080 on second display.

Hardware I/O on, Video->GPU acc. on, Preview Device->Optimize GPU on. Is there anything more to setup?

Comments

Radomir wrote on 12/4/2019, 6:37 PM

GeForce GTX 970. Newest drivers.

fifonik wrote on 12/4/2019, 7:19 PM

Have you tried to create simple project with single file in VP16, check it there then open it in VP17 and check there with no modifications.

Some project settings that affects performance might be overlooked quite often (bit depths for example).

Last changed by fifonik on 12/4/2019, 7:20 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Camcorder: Panasonic X920

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NLE: Vegas Pro [Edit] 11, 12, 13, 15, 17

Radomir wrote on 12/4/2019, 7:34 PM

Unfortunately it doesn't help, but it was a good idea.

Another thing is, Color Curves causes slow down about 10fps. So, clean project with one file, and CC with default curve. Off = 35-40fps, on = 22-25fps.

fifonik wrote on 12/4/2019, 9:43 PM

I did not get what do you mean by "it does not help".

Some VP settings can also affect performance. Like GPU in settings, HW I/O or scopes auto update. Switching HW I/O ON sometimes might make things worse. So4 might be used for different medias. Etc

At least, I'd reset VP settings for such testings.

Previous VP/plugin crashes might also affect performance dramatically (so restart might be required).

Last changed by fifonik on 12/4/2019, 9:54 PM, changed a total of 3 times.

Camcorder: Panasonic X920

Desktop: MB: MSI B450M MORTAR TITANIUM, CPU: AMD Ryzen 3700X (not OC), RAM: G'Skill 16 GB DDR4@3200 (not OC), Graphics card: MSI RX580 8GB, SSD: Samsung 970 Evo Plus NVMe 500MB (OS), HDDs: Seagate & Toshiba 2TB, OS: Windows 10 Pro 1909

NLE: Vegas Pro [Edit] 11, 12, 13, 15, 17

Radomir wrote on 12/5/2019, 4:22 AM

I did not get what do you mean by "it does not help".

I mean new empty project.

Some VP settings can also affect performance. Like GPU in settings, HW I/O or scopes auto update. Switching HW I/O ON sometimes might make things worse. So4 might be used for different medias. Etc

I tried combinations of GPU options on/off, but it make it only worse. But maybe i'm missing out something.

j-v wrote on 12/5/2019, 4:26 AM

Hi. I notice that V17 pro can't play movies from FS7 smooth as V16.

Luckely it is a good program and sorry for you but for playing there are other and maybe better programs and therefore no paying is needed.😁😉👍

 

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Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W10 home version 1909 build 18363.720, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti.
Laptop  :Asus ROG GL753VD, W10 home version 1909 build 18363.720, CPU i7 7700HQ, 8 GB RAM, GeF. GTX 1050 (2 GB) + Int. HD Graphics 630(2GB).VP 16,17 and VMS PL 16 are installed, all latest builds
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OldSmoke wrote on 12/5/2019, 9:08 PM

@Radomir have you tried disabling the so4compdll in VP17?

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
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Radomir wrote on 12/6/2019, 5:04 AM

Tried now, but nope. It don't help also.

I find some info about this method, and found this:

As an example, here is a version of the file that blacklists XAVC-S (but not XAVC-L or XAVC Intra, which are decoded by mxfxavc.dll).

of course this is true. I checked this in "general" properties of event, and there is:

 Name: mxfxavc.dll

Type: Sony XAVC Long MXF

I even tried to replace this dll from v16, but also without luck :(

Musicvid wrote on 12/6/2019, 4:50 PM

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

For identical source in both versions, please. Speculation is what it is.

 

Radomir wrote on 12/7/2019, 2:11 PM

Sorry, I don't understand your post. How this is supposed to help?

Former user wrote on 12/8/2019, 4:15 AM

When playing if you press pause/play do you get 50fps for a period of time?

Radomir wrote on 12/8/2019, 4:33 AM

No, it's 35 as I stated before, stable from start to end. With color curves 22-24, also from start to end.

But also if I play in 2x speed, XAVC-S also has problem with frame drops (v16 smooth) but sometimes i get stable 50fps until some "jump" to 20. Then for a while 20, and then again 50. In loop.

Sad thing is, that even in v14 everything work great (I mean preview in realtime) :( there is something wrong. I'm dissapointed a little.

Radomir wrote on 12/13/2019, 11:23 AM

Highspeed m2 disc helped a little with this, but hey, it was working great without it.

Former user wrote on 12/14/2019, 7:27 AM

I agree. I've made numerous posts pointing this out. Nobody has a solution or solid logic, just buy a faster computer with more cores. Which i'm sure would improve things. But performance is worse in vp17 even though in my setup vp16 does not have hardware decoding. only vp17 does

What I did in this example is to load VP16 down as much as possible with VFX so that it could only just get up to 50fps, but it would struggle due to my slow cpu. The point of this was to make the comparison with vp17. The results show the problems I have with vp17. It won't use my CPU. VP16 uses all of it, and you can see where it struggles due to moving the playing head it's simple to see the problem. I have become cpu bound in VP16. But with VP17 nothing explains why timeline performance is so bad

 

Radomir wrote on 12/14/2019, 8:38 AM

Holly molly, it's even worse :(

And while rendering, V17 also can't jump to 100% cpu or %100gpu (but is this even possible?) When I use NVENC, rendering is about 40-50%cpu and 0-30%gpu. If I don't use NVENC, it's 100% cpu - of course it's still very very slower, than NVENC.

Radomir wrote on 12/16/2019, 7:41 AM

New build 387 also didn't solve this problem. It's very SAD

fr0sty wrote on 12/16/2019, 9:59 AM

Your GPU is very old, and likely why 17, which has higher GPU requirements than 16, is struggling with it. Just because it meets the (absolute bare minimum) amount of GPU RAM required does not mean it will be able to maintain the same performance as previous versions that do not utilize the GPU in the same way.

Radomir wrote on 12/16/2019, 12:32 PM

It's sounds almost like Apple way to deal with old phones :(

Something is old? So we must force users to buy new things.

fr0sty wrote on 12/16/2019, 2:02 PM

As hardware gets more powerful, you can do more with it. Older cards simply lack the power to do some of the things we're throwing at them these days. If you want to take advantage of those new features that become possible with newer hardware, you gotta keep up with your equipment.

Apple, on the other hand, throttled the existing power of older phones to make then function worse. There was nothing gained, no new features or anything like that, as a result of this throttling.

Apples to oranges.

Radomir wrote on 12/16/2019, 2:31 PM

It is official statement from Magix creators?

Okay, my card is from 2014, but is there also bob-h, who has Nvidia Gtx1070 and it come out in 2016. This card is also to old for new super extra vegas new features? Come on.

joost-berk wrote on 12/16/2019, 3:04 PM

I am experiencing the exact same thing! I use a Nvidia GTX-1080 and VP16 handles the XAVC format better then VP17. I used to have a flawless 50fps preview in VP16, in VP17 it runs about 25 to 35 fps. It feels like it has something to do with the decoding of the XAVC format.

Vegas Pro user since version 1.2

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fr0sty wrote on 12/16/2019, 3:21 PM

We may be on to something then, as your GPU definitely does meet the requirements. I don't think the GPUs decode XAVC either, come to think of it.

j-v wrote on 12/16/2019, 3:49 PM

Okay, my card is from 2014,

I have a GTX 1050 Ti on one desktop that performs well with VPro 17 and I have a GTX 1660 Ti on my newer desktop. The last one performs much better than the older one and special on 4K projects with more than one heavy 4K HEVC stuff for previewing (with NVDec)and rendering with Nvenc.

 

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W10 home version 1909 build 18363.720, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti.
Laptop  :Asus ROG GL753VD, W10 home version 1909 build 18363.720, CPU i7 7700HQ, 8 GB RAM, GeF. GTX 1050 (2 GB) + Int. HD Graphics 630(2GB).VP 16,17 and VMS PL 16 are installed, all latest builds
Both Nvidia GPU's have driver version 442.19 Studio Driver, desktop the Studio DHC driver
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

Dutch video tutorials for beginners

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEMCELL DONOR !!!