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Audioon 11/15/2023
Audio Levels being set in Vegas Pro 20 not preserved in Render... WHY?
The results in @john_dennis ' chart look promising. I'll see if I can duplicate it on the next few projects. So the suggestion to use PCM would include WAV files, from what I have read. Again, I am thankful for the insight and suggestions you all have offered.
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Audioon 11/14/2023
Audio Levels being set in Vegas Pro 20 not preserved in Render... WHY?
@john-brown I did the experiment you suggested. Using no limiter, I set the audio level to minus 10 dB, as read on Vegas' cumulative peak meters and as read on the input level slide fader. I used a short section and rendered it. I then took the rendered result and started a new instance of Vegas 20, with the minus 10 dB rendered file. It played back at minus 9.4 Peak on the left channel and minus 9.9 Peak on the right channel. The pan control is set to CENTER. Both channels showed minus 10.0 throughout the test, until rendered. I then repeated the experiment, using the same section of the same source file. This time I set the input slider to the normal Zero position (for Unity Gain) and inserted a True Peak Limiter, set to "dim" at -0.5 dB. While playing the clip in Vegas, with the Limiter engaged, it maintained a perfect peak level of -0.5, as indicated on Vegas' Peak Meters, and as indicated on the limiter. Rock-solid, ongoing ceiling of -0.5dB. As the rendering is happening, you can watch the limiter processing and displaying a maximum peak of -0.5 dB. I then took that rendered file and played it on a fresh, new instance of Vegas PRO 20. Instead of having a peak of -0.5 dB, it had minus 0.2 on the left and minus 0.3 on the right channel. The pan control is set to CENTER. It does seem as if Vegas is trying to normalize at some imprecise and irregular amount. I don't get inconsistent results like this when mixing or mastering audio in other programs. The only problem is that I want it to remain consistent when that audio becomes the audio component of a video, using Vegas 20. I don't have another video editing program. Thanks to everyone for helping parse this out.
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Audioon 11/14/2023
Audio Levels being set in Vegas Pro 20 not preserved in Render... WHY?
I meant @john_dennis sorry...
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Audioon 11/14/2023
Audio Levels being set in Vegas Pro 20 not preserved in Render... WHY?
@john-brown
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Audioon 11/14/2023
Audio Levels being set in Vegas Pro 20 not preserved in Render... WHY?
We are trying to have more control over our own fate by mastering within the target limitations of YouTube, i.e. max peak level of -0.5dB and -14LUFS max. There just seems to be no way within VEGAS PRO to take a soundtrack that IS within those parameters, RENDER it with video in VEGAS, and get a resulting video with the AUDIO rendered AT those levels. Vegas almost seems like it's "autocorrecting" the audio to put it back to ZERO DB Peak during the rendering process. While preparing for render, I observe the meters being within the range I want. The Vegas Peak Level meters record a peak level that is within the desired range. Everything looks and sounds perfect. Then, after rendering with all of the above in place, the finished, rendered audio-video product, loaded into a fresh instance of VEGAS PRO, the audio is back to full-scale ZERO DB, peak level meters are RED... As if I had not gone to great lengths to ensure, by setting input levels, master levels, with or without limiters of any make you want to try, it's back to square one. I can make audio files that are perfectly within these limits of -0.5dB and render them (with no gain added anywhere) and they come out after rendering back to full-scale, IN THE RED, ZERO dB. I have several audio metering plugins. They aren't cheap. They all agree with one another. It's in VEGAS where there seems to be no standards of transferable audio measurements. This equates to money when you have A.I. taking your audio manipulating it in ways you would never want it to be handled. The only way to maintain control over that is to have reliable, calibrated standards that can work across multiple platforms. Soundtracks are in competition with one another. Who wants to hand their fate over to an algorithm? In audio, Precision Matters.
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Audioon 11/14/2023
Audio Levels being set in Vegas Pro 20 not preserved in Render... WHY?
@EricLNZ The source audio files are Normally 44khz wave files, sometimes 128 kbs mp3. They are mastered to peak at no greater than -0.5 dB. When they are rendered into videos, that happens as MAGIX AVC/AAC MP4 which is what I am then testing within Vegas PRO and results in inconsistent audio playback metering, showing excessive peak levels, whether run through a limiter during rendering, or not. Our YouTube channel has over one million subscribers. We fight to get the best quality audio that we can. These new algorithms are punishing us with their automatic throttling-down of our music videos. Dropping the output by 2 or 3 dB can significantly affect the performance of a video, so mastering at below-professional levels in order to compensate for random inaccuracy of Vegas PRO metering between levels set before rendering and resultant differing levels after rendering is something that I would not consider to be a PRO result. There is a concept in Audio called "UNITY GAIN". That means that the output will mirror the input, exactly. At Unity Gain, the meters and peaks will be an exact copy of one another in peak and RMS amplitude. I am not seeing anything like Unity Gain when the pre-rendering levels show a number to within a tenth of a decibel, and the output after rendering shows something different. Why does the rendered output meter reading and peak level not equal the metered and peak level input before rendering that same source file?
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Audioon 11/14/2023
Audio Levels being set in Vegas Pro 20 not preserved in Render... WHY?
I'm not sure how to do the test that John did. I know that simply, without any VST's at all, I have set audio to show -1 dB as the maximum peak, and then played it back in a new session after rendering, and what had showed (all the way through the video) to be minus 1 dB will play back at full-scale zero db. It's like the metering is just a relative indication, as in an approximation, rather than a value that can be relied upon. I have a background in instrumentation and calibration. "Relative" indications are not readings that are suitable for applications that require the audio to be within specific parameters. Videos that have the potential to reach thousands or even millions of viewers can suffer from being remastered by algorithms. Metrics should be transferrable from one platform to another. What is the value of a peak meter in Vegas PRO that shows a peak reading throughout a video to be a given number, to a tenth of a decibel, when it won't repeat that same number after rendering when the resultant video is again played back through a new instance of Vegas Pro? Again, I thank you all for your kind thoughts and suggestions.
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Audioon 11/14/2023
Audio Levels being set in Vegas Pro 20 not preserved in Render... WHY?
Thanks for the responses and the test results. It's a bit frustrating to have meters that read in fractions of a dB, yet the calibration is nowhere near precision upon being rendered. I have precision audio metering within my audio programs and those follow industry standards and produce professional, consistent results. I would expect similar precision from an audio/video program with the word PRO in the name.
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Videoon 5/5/2023
URGENT - VEGAS PRO OPENING PROBLEM
Link for Deep Learning module? When I did my uninstalls in the many times I tried reloading before @set was kind enough to provide a link to the emergency download, my Deep Learning modules were removed. After my 7-hour ordeal of trying about 12 times to get the Excruciatingly Slow Download From Hell to finally not crash, I got my Vegas 20 working again. Thank you, thank you! But in the emergency download there never was the "option selection page" where you tell the downloader which features you want to download and which you do not. (Vegas 20, Vegas Deep Learning, Sound Forge, Vegas Effects, Vegas Image, etc...) So now when I check, I no longer show the "Deep Learning" as being installed as it was before the debacle happened. Can we get a download link to just that, or to the menu of selections in order to restore just that feature? I'm not even sure what that Deep Learning module does, but I was led to believe by the advertisements that it was a good thing that helped to justify the enormous price I paid for the "full boat" Vegas 20 PRO/POST. I am glad that the main program runs now, but wish to restore all of the whistles and bells that are supposed to make the upgraded package worth the extra hundreds of dollars that were required for the POST package. Thanks so much for the support amidst this trainwreck. Thank you, Windows, for your mandatory incremental "updates". 😱
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Videoon 5/5/2023
Vegas Pro 20 Stopped Working 5/4/2023
Thank you, @set !
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Videoon 2/28/2023
System Crashes
The Title Studio plugin itself was/is a 2021 product... but the BCC Continuum that has to be installed to run the Title Studio was old, and did not have the needed magic to properly coordinate the dance between Vegas 20 and Old Title Studio. I don't believe there is a more updated version of Title Studio itself, but Title Studio is a child of Continuum. Updating Continuum was the fix.
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Videoon 2/28/2023
System Crashes
So I want to thank everyone who made suggestions. My system now does not immediately crash, and runs Title Studio from within Vegas 20. @lan-mLMC provided the final nudge that got me to a point where the two programs began to cooperate. Along with the users on this site, I did get good suggestions from the BorisFX forums, and was pleased to see that there was moderation from BorisFX, who reached out to me, asking the usual questions about equipment, software in use, etc... and they did seem to agree that a little bit of updating could help with some onboarding links. And users here on the Vegas site did encourage me to try the things that we all forget to do when we find ourselves frustrated by crashing software. The fog of war, I think it is called. SOLUTION: It seems that the links that were provided with my bundle purchase from MAGIX were to a legacy version of Boris Continuum. Several versions old... So I uninstalled all of the BorisFX products from my computer, and went to the downloads area on the BorisFX site. I actually found a more current version than the one the links in Ian's post included. But thank you Ian, for getting me into this mode. So I went through it twice, after discovering that Ian's link was also to legacy versions, albeit that those were newer than what was provided in the MAGIX Bundle install links. I wanted to start afresh with the current, latest, greatest version of Continuum as the "wrapper" for Title Studio. At the end of the install, BCC removes the Continuum elements that are not part of the Magix bundle. That's fine. I don't want my picklists cluttered with things I can't access. Immediately after this updating of versions, no crashes upon merely trying to run video with both programs running That was a first. I had a couple of stock template animated titles over some simple 4K footage, and it ran in Vegas 20. There was a little bit of a time lag between audio and video, but it ran, like a tank. I could get the audio and video to sync-up better for timing by reducing the monitor display resolution. Not ideal, but understandable with resource-intensive plugins. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, insofar as getting tolerable use, and only adding the complicated titles as the final step in building a video. I will continue to look for ways to optimize playback and stabilize for the occasional crashes that I have always experienced periodically with Vegas. I also expect there to be some Vegas Updates, as previous installs have usually paced-out incremental updates about once per week, until you have gone through the gamut of existing updates. The titles are stunning. When rendered they of course run flawlessly and really have an impact on the look of the video. So it would probably be WAY COOL if Magix would use links that are up-to-date when they put together a bundle that includes BorisFX products, or any other, for that matter. I was really disappointed when Vegas would crash every time I launched BCC Title Studio. I am really elated to have it working properly now. I will continue to test as time allows, but it appears to me that the issue is resolved from removing outdated legacy BCC and replacing it with the current version. Thanks to everyone who helped me, and I hope this post helps current and future Vegas users. Bob
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Videoon 2/27/2023
System Crashes
@RogerS thank you for the suggestion. I have just posted on the BorisFX forum, and it is evident from going there that representatives from BorisFX are monitoring the posts, and taking part in the discussions. It also seems evident that they have a good working relationship with VEGAS support, and that they do work on issues like this. The issues just need to be brought to their attention, and then, hopefully, they will eventually issue bugfixes in one or the other, or both companies' software updates. Most of the questioning, logically, starts out over what hardware, and what versions of sofwares are at play, and at what point in use of the products does the offending crash take place...? I did make the offer there, and will make it here, as well, if developers would like a short screen-capture video, showing what the user experience is like when attempting to use these products together, I would be more than happy to provide that information. I can provide all info on hardware, software, and mode of use. I just want to be able to use the products. Then, hopefully, everyone else who wants it to work will also benefit from that process.
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Videoon 2/27/2023
System Crashes
@RogerS - Thanks for letting me know this is the correct forum for Vegas 20. I have contacted Boris in the past. Most vendors point at the other guy. "It's Vegas's Problem" "It's a Boris FX problem. Often it's an incompatibility issue that you would think two vendors doing a mutual-benefit promotion would at least make sure their products would work together, and have some "best practices" available for the specific task of using the two products together as implied by the offering of an upgrade of the combination of said products.
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Videoon 2/26/2023
System Crashes
It may be one of those things that you have to work with on short clips or even still images that you import into a standalone Title Studio, then render it and export that rendered Title transparency into Vegas. That would be a total workaround, and wasn't what I had in mind when I purchased it, but it could be a way to get amazing titles into Vegas Pro/Post. It's kind of sad if the most robust PC's on the planet cannot run these programs without constant crashing. That's not what the advertisements imply.
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Videoon 2/26/2023
System Crashes
@Gid Thanks for your response and the information about putting my equipment and software into my profile. I intend to try to get Title Studio to at least Not Crash with Vegas 20, but that may be a fool's errand. The Titles look so much better than the regular Vegas built-in titles (which, by the way, when Vegas of any version is running poorly, even moving a Vegas title on the timeline at the wrong moment can bring the whole thing crashing down...)
highmtn
Offline, Last login 11/15/2023, Member since 5/26/2022