Alternatively duplicate track and replace the media. right click new media and drop on timeline select replace media

Thanks Rory - quick answer!

Holding down and then pasting into a *new* track works. But then of course these keyframs are relating to the same "time code" in the production, meaning I will have to "slide" the set of keyframes to the correct positions all the time.

They are not related to the clip or event but rather to the track and the timeline.
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However... What if it was possible to just save the 3D Alpha motion thing I did and simply dragged that preset onto a new clip? Would that be a lot easier?
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As it is now, repeating and combining nice effects with lots of pre made keyframes is indeed quite a time consuming task in Vegas...

Best & thanks Lars

Lars I am with you

For example you create a 3d cam pull there is an option to save preset but it is null because it’s without the keys
So you have to save and use veg as a nest whereas preset would be quicker and easier, would be very nice indeed.

"So you have to save and use veg as a nest whereas preset would be quicker and easier, would be very nice indeed."

Don't dismiss using nests. As Grazie once hinted at it would be really nice if Vegas made this more obvious / elegant in the way others use sequences / composites but that takes nothing away from their power and flexibility.

The advantage of using a nest / sequence / comp is you can stuff anything into them. Trying to store lots and lots of keyframes etc. etc into a preset where they have nothing to connect to seems problematic to me.

Bob.

I was editing a short 2 minute industrial / corporate thing here in PPro CS5 yesterday. Some products were supposed to "Fly in" from left to center. Text as well. So motion, glow effects, blur effects etc. I think 4 different effects that required keyframes and timing.

There were 10 products and all required the same treatment. ALmost.

When I was done with the first I then just highlighted the 4 saved presets and dropped them on the 9 remaining clips and Voila! Everything was done and no additional tracks needed.

It was very easy and straightforward. I was thinking that perhaps something like this would be useful in Vegas...?

When I was working on another project - similar - in vegas today I just realized that.. hmmm... what's the easiest way to do this here....?

Lars

...and dropped them on the 9 remaining clips...

There's your first clue. Track motion doesn't get applied to clips. It's applied to tracks.

Rob

"Track motion doesn't get applied to clips. It's applied to tracks."

Not so certain about this, the keyframes are seemingly locked to the events. Delete all the events and the keyframes go with them.

As for what seems to be happening in CS5, it uses a plugin to handle 3D motion I think. That's a very different approach to how Vegas is doing things.

Bob.

When I delete the clip, I can still see keyfame diamonds right below the track. And if I put another clip on that empty space it will be affected by those keyframes.

Yes the CS5 approach is different. But turned out to save a lot of time and craftmanship in copying / pasting / adding tracks and fiddling... I just highlighted the 4 presets I wanted - and dropped those on to those remaining 10 events that I wanted them to work on. And that all there was to it.

Perhaps something for SCS to copy as it worked like a charm.

In our CS2/Axio systems 3D motion is handled by a plugin and it uses the graphics card to render the effect.

I just tried this with two events on a track and some keyframes under each of them. If you delete one event the keyframes under it go away but the other keys remain. I'd say that the keyframes depend on there being *something* on the track above them, but the keyframes aren't actually on the event.

It'd be handy if 3D motion could be attached directly to events but that's not the way in works since 3D is a track compositing mode. Alternatively, it'd be cool if you could right-click an event and "convert to selection to nested veg file". That'd be a time saver.

The solution still stands that you need to create these things as nested veg files if you want to repeat them.

Yeah, and it'd be nice if you could copy and paste those track keyframes. (edit: Spoke to soon there. You can copy and paste track keyframes, and you can paste them where no events exist. I'd say that the fact that keyframes get deleted when you delete events is a bug, or bug-like feature.)

Rob

So isn't the way they do it in PPro CS5 better? If that's a better more practical solution, why not add that into Vegas?

When I delete the clip, I can still see keyfame diamonds right below the track

That's good to know. Not what I experienced but there must be a situation I'm not trying where it works.

I understand what you're saying and, yes, it'd be nice if you could drop your track effect onto a track and make it "so". There are gotcha's to this, though. The track efect would convert a track';s compositing mode to 3D Alpha, and you'd need a way to specify whether the keyframes were absolute or relative to the cursor. You also need some logic that lets you choose to add a zero keyframe it the head of your track effect, otherwise your first keyfram could have an effect on the preceding duration of your track.

This really brings up something else though, which is that Vegas could have better tools for organizing, managing, archiving, and sharing your presets.

Rob Mack

It may not be possible without a large rewrite, but there are many ways to skin this cat. I'd opt for the "convert event to nested veg" option and a tabbed timeline to show multiple veg files. That kills more birds with the same stone.

Rob

BTW, Macromedia and Adobe used to spend a lot of time suing each other over interface features. I'm sure this is one reason that SCS doesn't just copy PPro features.

Rob

So you think legal threats is the reason why we in Vegas can't have a plugin that does 3D and where you save the presets?

I specifically had the tabbed timeline in mind.

Legal threats do indeed affect interface elements. There was a time when Adobe and Macromedia were using some very similar custom interface widgets. These were very intuitive things and made the programs easier to use. Unfortunately, the two companies tried to sue the pants off each other for many years and if you had used several versions of their software at that time you would have noticed little parts of the interfaces disappearing.

It's unfortunate, but Adobe boxes their competitors in a bit. This is probably why SCS uses a pretty stock MS toolkit. It protects their butts.

I'm sure you could have a plugin that applies 3D to events. You'd probably need to fund it. There is nothing like that currently in Vegas.

Rob

I don't think that 3D plugins with the possiblity to save presets in any way would be a legal problem.

I also don't think that making a slightly more elegant, cool and individual interface GUI would be a legal problem.

Premiere Pro, Avid, Edius, FCP all look different but they don't look like an operating system... I think Vegas *needs* to look a little smoother and elegant to keep up with the competition.

I'd say 99% of all Vegas-users incl the ones on this group would appreciate an elegant looking interface. Something they coupld show to clients and be proud of.

AND something that would be more customizable in terms of colors and brightness.

Many plugins in Vegas look like 1990's Windows freeware and it's just good enough. Many plugins could be smaller, smart looking and also get full control over resolutioon of sliders etc. Very often shift and drag or not shift and drag gives either too much or too little action.

Best,
Lars

Oh, I agree with you about the look of Vegas...BUT:

1. there was huge hew and cry from users on this forum when more color was added to the vegas interface. It was labeled "Hello Kitty". Yes, users want a nicer interface and, yes, users want the interface to stay exactly how it is.

2. As far as design and IP...really. Yes. Lawsuits. You really need a legal team to make sure your designs aren't infringing. Really. At best this slows you down, at worst it blocks you entirely. (we had Adobe people here asking for feedback on their plans for CS3 several years ago and I mentioned the Adobe-Macromedia episode. They all seemed a bit embarrassed, maybe even a little shamed. But they weren't the lawyers.)

3. You missed the point entirely on I.P. issues. I wasn't specifically addressing a 3D plugin with that point. But honestly a 3D plugin is a minor issue.

Rob

Well, why not just leave Vegas as it is then?

Guess that in this rapidly changing world, it feels nice and cosy with some things just being as they have always been.

Nothing like a good crash when you know exactly it's going to happen.

Lars

Nothing like a good crash when you know exactly it's going to happen.

That's been our experience with our hardware accelerated PPro systems. Crashes exactly when you expect them. :-) But that just leads into the joys of a hardware accelerated system with third party plugins accessing that hardware.

Where were we? Yes, I agree that Vegas should always see good improvements that are *smart*, useful, and get good bang for the buck. Interface changes should make things more intuitive (easier to guess) and they should also guide you down good roads and away from bad roads. If people make the same mistake over and over and over then an interface change might solve that.

Vegas *has* the tools to do 3D moves but it's applied to tracks, not clips. This has limitations and special considerations if you want to drag a saved 3D move onto other tracks. Not impossible to do it, it just has implications because it changes the compositing mode of the track, and there's a question about what to do with the keyframes. Do you start them at zero on the track or do you start them at the cursor position, or do you ask the user what they want to do?

Ideally there should also be a 3D effect for events.

More ideally, there should be a better system to manage presets so we could email them to each other.

Got to give some props to Bob here.

I'd done a whole chapter of fancy, flying titles using 5 tracks. Then I copied them into the veg with the next chapter, with the I-should-have-known results--none of the meticulously built track motion keyframes came with the copy.

I was banging me head on the desk when I found this thread and Bob's post about nesting.

Bingo. I saved the completed chapter veg as "Titles Template," deleted all but the titles tracks and saved again. I put a marker dead-bang at the beginning or each title. For each chapter I do, I'll import the titles veg, save it with the name of the new chapter, and modify as needed. The Markers show me exactly where to split and trim the titles veg.

Thank you farss.

I’m not with you? Why not just save that same titles template chapter 1 also as titles template chapter 2 open and right click replace media or edit existing media

Glad it worked out for you.
Having 'discovered' the power and ease of using comps in AE I realised how much easier Nests make Vegas to work with. Even if you don't absolutely need to create Nests in Vegas or Comps in AE it helps to split complex tasks down into simple components that you can 'put to bed' where you are not forever seeing them cluttering things up and distracting you.
It can also pay dividends to have a rational naming convention for all the comps / nests.

Bob.