I don't know any apps where the edit history is time-stamped, but that is an interesting idea.
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Nuendo/Cubase, Pro Tools, Roland & Tascam Hard Disk Recorders all have times tamped Edit History Folders. It's been around since 1990! I just assumed that every application would have it by now.

If you don't find Vegas up to complicated editing tasks, which app would you suggest?

Sorry KeyofG. When I said Apps, I meant video editing apps.

As for other software, please feel free to contact me off list (just click on my name) so as not to clutter up the conversation here.

Please note that there a several editor out there who produce fairly complex work in Vegas. I just found it didn't serve my particular needs, and made a different choice. I am sure those who do, would be pleased to tell you how they do it.

PF is dead on. User Interface is really a personal thing. An old school linear editor would be totally lost in Vegas and feel at home in others. When I was teaching high school students, they couldn't understand the methodology of FCP, but I didn't even have to show them more than a couple of things in Vegas and they were off and running.

I find Vegas Pro to be dead on for me, but I do set my edit up so that ripples and such make sense. I also use all of the different types of ripple. Control+L to turn ripple on and off is a constant friend just like the same short cut in FCP.

For complex and very accurate editing I zoom in and out with the wheel a lot giving me various levels of accuracy. I also use keystrokes for movement in one frame increments.

I hope you feel comfortable in Vegas Pro or find and interface that works for you. It takes a while with most apps.

being an old school linear editor my first moves into nonlinear were reasonably easy (avid, media 100, etc.,). vegas was an eye-opener, a shock to my thinking, and was nearly dumped...

but it wasn't, and now i have problems understanding why people waste hours trying to do thing i can do in vegas in a fraction of the time.

of course, if you only edit once in a while, and then try to do complex things, you're going to run into problems with any nle. to become proficient you have to work with your tools on a regular basis....

btw - a. what's on your tl? b. your pc is certainly umphy enough! but have you thought your sound card might be giving vegas problems? it might well not be, but over the years i've read about a few problems caused by s/card drivers in vegas.... c. have you thought about rendering out 'sections' then combining them?

"now i have problems understanding why people waste hours trying to do thing i can do in vegas in a fraction of the time."


I've seen several comments over the years similar to this one. However, I've never seen any concrete examples given.

Can you offer 2 or 3 examples of where doing something in Vegas is several times faster than doing it in other popular NLEs? After using a few different NLEs, I can't seem to think of any tasks to which this applies.

I too have used and do use Avid and Vegas... Vegas is faster at doing some things ...such as dragging on the timeline auto crossfade type stuff,, vegas eats footage without transcoding ,most times.. avid works for me and so does vegas,, down and dirty cut edit....for me vegas will be much faster.... but thats me.. is it better ...no. is it worse .. no. Am I here on the sony site when I don't use vegas NO

Parrone I can give you many examples, each situation different. I produce literally hundreds of pieces of content each year and nearly all of them get the brief late or visuals late with hectic changes made constantly, and I’ve never been late. And still have a family life. That’s real concrete.

I Have also used other NLE’s and work with other folks who use them daily. I still stick with Vegas because it is very quick. Sure more time is better quality but in this world time is the biggest and most expensive commodity of all.

"Parrone I can give you many examples..."

Ok, I'm just asking for one or two. I am not looking for a general "I get my work done on time so Vegas is faster.." type of answer.

I can say without a doubt that changing a project type in Vegas is a TON faster than it is in Avid. As is simply starting a project. Fortunately, those are one-time occurances in a project or very rare.

Plenty of editors are able to work under deadline with all other NLEs. Which is why you see FCP or Avid in newsrooms all over the world. So I don't consider your example concrete at all.

Sure……..what you left out is they will have 3 people doing it. while on this side its only me.

Posted by: ushere
of course, if you only edit once in a while, and then try to do complex things, you're going to run into problems with any nle. to become proficient you have to work with your tools on a regular basis....
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That's just it, this is NOT a complex project. It wouldn't make any sense for a novice like me to even attempt anything advanced at this point. This is must "meat & potatos" kind of editing. I just lined up the clips and went hard cut & cross fade with some text overlays. I only used 2 transition inserts.

Here's an example of what I found ridiculous.
At the end of my video I've got credits scrolling between still photo clips. I decided that 2 of the credit clips should've come later in the time line, while the clips that were later should arrive sooner.

In Nuendo, this would've been a simple matter of placing a track above or below to slide things around, copying the sequences I wanted to shift, slide them into place above or below their new entry points, delete the clips to be moved and slide the copies into the openings.

In Vegas, the openings won't stay put and that was the smallest hassle! When I copied my scrolling text clip, WHICH WAS NOT PART OF THE GROUP, I got an entire copy of everything on the timeline from that clip to the end of the sequence (???). So I just dropped in a new credit roll over the original on a track above it and re-typed the entire scrolling sequence information (a really inefficient use of my time!). I sized it to match and then attempted to move the original clip up into the "travel lane" above it and EVERYTHING ON THE TIME LINE MOVE UP WITH IT. So now I have to write down every entrance and exit point, move the other clips away from the one clip I want to move just to be able to move it into the upper track! Then I lowered the other clip into the spot and closed the line back. Now I can move the other clip to it's new location further down the time line and start this madness all over. If I just moved the original clip from its spot, the time line automaticaly closes the gap. So I've got to constantly monitor EVERY LITTLE DETAIL just to make an opening to place a clip. I felt like I was diffusing a bomb, rather than editing a sequence!

In another instance, I needed 2 clips, crossfaded, to fill the gap of another replaced segment. I made those 2 clips its own group so that they would move as one block into the new location. THEY SEPARATED AS SOON AS I MOVED IT(???). Meanwhile every part of that larger group moved every single time I tried to move a single clip from that group. So, I've got absoutely no consistancy to work with on this learning curve.

This would literally have been a 30 second edit in Nuendo. It took me 40 minutes to move 4 little clips. Even allowing for novice status, that seems an excessivly poor ergonomic workflow.

So, how should I have attempted that simple edit in Vegas?

What you describe makes no sense. There is nothing complicated about moving stuff around in Vegas. Sounds like you are having problems with grouping and ripple editing ( you think something is grouped when it's really not and/or the other way around ). It's just a matter of figuring out what you are doing wrong most likely due to still being mentally stuck in whatever NLE you were using before.

I've seen avid editors fumble with something like this when first trying Vegas and trying to force it to behave like avid.

KeyofG,

I'm sure this is very frustrating to you, but once you get the hang of "Auto Ripple", Grouping and (most importantly) the Cntl-Z key; all this will become second nature to you.

Now, if I could just say the same about the ProType Titler. Every time I use it I have to re-learn. By the end of the process, I think - "aha, that makes sense". Then, two weeks later, I'm back to ground zero :-(

...Jerry

Mastering ripple should go at the top of the to-do list.

"So, how should I have attempted that simple edit in Vegas?"

with auto-ripple turned off :)

ripple is better suited for Avid/FCP/PP imo. i always leave it off; only use it once or twice a week... i'm sure others use it more but i don't like using it so i don't.

i use the Selection Edit Tool, press G and move the elements i want out of the way, then press U to ungroup them after moving.

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note: i picked Vegas because the interface was more intuitive to me which means less thinking more paying attention to what my eyes are telling me... there's a bunch'o'NLE's out there. try 'em and pick the one u like most; they're all about the same in capabilities in spite of what some say.

and they ALL suck at times, i guarantee that. if any of them was perfect we'd all be using it.

"and they ALL suck at times, i guarantee that. if any of them was perfect we'd all be using it. "

Brother, you SAID IT!

Ripple edit in Vegas is the gray hair inducer... in Avid it's black/filler. The idea of having to do a razor cut on FILLER to get a clean segment move was the most unintuitive thing I'd ever seen!

Each of these programs has it's things that trip you up.

To me Ripple Edit is very intuitive but it can be very dangerous, too. I usually ripple edit a lot when I'm setting up a project, big swipes at things. But when deep down in an edit it's almost always off, and if I need to alter an event where things should be rippled forward or back, I look at it carefully...VERY carefully, and remember that Ctrl-Z (Undo) is your best friend during those moments.

I remember years ago when I was editing my first documentary. I had over 50 tracks (long story) and ripple editing was KILLING me. I was about to throw the thing out the window. It took me a while to get the hang of it.

I think the trouble for me with ripple edit is that the combination of it having multiple modes, having it work track based, and not having track locking, just drove me up a wall.

I think if there was a built-in track lock (and yes I know about the script now) where you could say, NOTHING affects these tracks, they are perfect, but could move other things around... that would go a LONG way toward making the ripple edit more helpful. But as it is, I just leave the thing off most of the time.