I recently bought a tiny Sanyo HD2000 as a toy to take on my trip to Alaska. Was I surprised! It compares favorably to the Sony HDV (HC1) pair that I had been using for a couple of years - slightly worse horizontal resolution (about 700 lines, compared to nearly 800 for the Sony pair), but slightly better vertical resolution. The best of the new prosumer cams yield around 900 lines horizontal.

Low-light performance is far better with the Sanyo.

Manual controls are far better for the Sanyo, and they stay set indefinitely, whereas I'd have to set them each day for the HC1s.

No LANC for the Sanyo, but excellent remote control eliminates the need for it - for my studio work.

The MP4 formate is easy to load onto my computer, and plays back OK on Vegas 9. But I usually compress it to PicVideo or Cineform 60 progressive, then edit it in Vegas 8c. I actually can get cleaner chromakey with the Sanyo than with the Sony, and the native 60 fps progressive makes prep for the web easier and slo-mo easier and cleaner.

It has external audio and levels control (a bit crude), but no VU meters - ugh.

Image stabilization stinks, but the free NewDeshaker fixes it. In any case, I usually use a tripod - even during my trip to Alaska.

I like it so much that I sold one of my Sony HC1s and bought another Sanyo - this time a VH1 (around $400). It has a slower lens (F2.4 instead of 1.8), and no external audio. But it is smaller - I bought a mount for my electric scooter; and it fits in my pants pocket (a bit bulky, tho).

CamcorderInfo and others have reviews. If you can live with a slightly soft image, you might like this one.

I have the Sony HR-11 and I dearly LOVE that camera.

When we went to Amsterdam last spring, it's the camera I took, leaving my Canon 5D behind. And that was for the STILL photos it took. I have made 4 or 5 books using it as my main and often only still camera. As a HD camera, it's great. No tapes. 60 gig HD - enough for hours of HD footage. It goes right into Vegas and works like a charm.
While I don't beat my cameras, I don't baby them either. This one is built like a horse (and that's a good thing). It's small and innocuous. No one pays attention to you when you're shooting with it. Great for candids.
Hey - I don't work for Sony - I just love their gear.
v

2nd for the SR11 - great camera, I've had it for a year and a half and no problems, good build quality and nice videos.

heard good things about the Canon something 10 that was just released not too long ago.

Thanks Tom. Fabulous breakdown. The lack of manual controls on the external mic is not an issue for me for the reasons I stated earlier. I'll be looking seriously at the Sony HDR-CX500V.

Cheers!

Ken

OK, adding the SR11 to the final showdown:). Thanks again everyone!

Ken

Does anyone know if there is an HD camcorder in the higher end of this $ range that records in 24p? I have a Canon HV20 right now as a 2nd camera, and I'm looking to upgrade to get away from having to go through the Canon hoops of having to use special software to actually get the true 24p footage.

I have a Sony CX12 that is basically the SR-12 without the hard drive and I love it for family stuff. It shoots beautiful HD and edits easily in Vegas.

To answer your question of what to look for, I would look for as many manual controls on the outside of the camera as possible. Any manual control buried in a menu is not worth having because you'll never using it while shooting. You want a real focus ring. My CX12 has a programmable knob under the lens just like the exposure control on my Sony Z1U and at the push of a button it controls focus, exposure, AE shift, and white balance shift. There is no substitute for having a "real" button to make an adjustment.

If you are willing to go a little more ($1900) you could get a prosumer camera like the Sony HDR-FX7. For the extra $400 (from $1500) you are in a whole different league and you will absolutely love the image and control that it will give you. If you are making music videos you really should spend a little extra for a good camera. You won't regret it later when you get better at it.

Personally, I would spend $500-700 on a consumer camera and wait until you can afford a prosumer camera like the FX7. I wouldn't buy anything in the $800-$1500 range. It's not going to be any better quality than a $700 camera. Just more bells and whistles that you don't need.

~jr

After thinking and comparing a lot I setteled for the SONY HDR-C505VE (32 GB internal memory) - and bought it with the external microphone SONY ECM-HST1.

Reasons:
1) the unrivalled active 3-gyro stabilizer (as I have to do 80% handheld and often moving)
2) the new EXMOR chip which is said to - and actually also does have - 2 x normal sensibility - resulting in low, low video noise at half-light recordings (and low light too).
3) stunning small size and weight.

The extra microphone is just fixed on the top of the camera - and when you put on a babysock or two (0-1 months :-) you get rid of most of the &%¤#§ wind and moving noise.

> my intended use for video is to make music videos for my own record label,
> and do the occasional video podcast, tutorials, etc.

Get a D-SLR that does 720p. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/canon_eos500d.asp

Add a very wide angle prime lens in the 10-17mm range for your music video work, and a zoom in the 20-100mm range for general shooting.

Trust me.

I'm going to have to second TimTyler.

If your shooting music videos the Canon 7D DSLR (at $1900 which pushes your budget) is very much worth a look.

Any opinions about the Canon VIXIA HF S100 versus the Sony HDR-CX500V?

I had the SR11 as well, loved it, sadly so did some stranger.
I replaced it with the HDR-XR500, pretty much the same as the CX500, but with a hard 120GB Hard disk, though it also have a MS Duo slot (as does the SR11). I'd say it's even better than the SR11, its low light is fantastic.

Sadly Sony's camcorders in these series uses a CMOS sensor, it's extremely fast so the rolling shutter effect is practically not there, but from what I can tell flashes tend to be a problem.

Both the SR11/12 (Same camera, but with 60/120GB HDD) and the the newer comparable XR500/520 (Same camera, but with 120/240GB) have a microphone in, and headset out 3.5mm mini jacks, and the option for manual control of some functions via a jog wheel. You can manually set some before recording, but you can assign one of 4 settings to the wheel to be manipulated on the fly, shift between them by holding the button on the wheel for 3-4 seconds, all four manual controls can be active at the same time if needed. They are:
* Focus
* Exposure
* AE Shift
* White balance shift

The lowest light setting on the XR500/520 is said to be 3 lux. All I know is that it provides better low light performance than the SR11 I had, with much less noise.

It's CMOS is 1/2.88"

I hope this information helps. I'm not a pro, but I do like my camera :)

I'm going to have to second TimTyler.

But .. isn't one of the main problems with DSLR video is that you can't do long, continuous shots? I would think that is a practical necessity for shooting a band performing a song.

I've been very impressed with the image quality of my Canon Vixia. In bright light you get a broadcast-quality HD picture. Low light performance is poor, and contrary to some published reviews, the Vixias do not record progressive. If you can live with those liabilities, I don't believe there is *currently* a better HD camcorder in your price range. But that could change at any moment...

I setteled for the SONY HDR-C505VE (32 GB internal memory)

I think you'll be very happy with it. I got the XR500V (similar model with Viewfinder and 120G drive) and I'm very pleased. I'm still not sure the HST1 is what I'd want for a mic but something is needed. The "zoom" mic that comes with the camera works best in "zoom" mode otherwise (in normal mode) it really picks up a huge amount of ambient noise (almost like hiss) ..

I picked up the Canon VIXIA HG20 back in September for both personal use and to use as a satellite cam to capture a bride coming down the aisle at an outdoor wedding. It was ideal for me because it's hard disc based - so I could set it and forget it.
It's full HD with decent color representation, excellent image quality and I only paid a little over $530 for it new prior to it being discontinued.

"and contrary to some published reviews, the Vixias do not record progressive. "

This is only partially true, and only for the HV20 and HV30, not the HV40. The 20 and 30 do record 24 discreet frames per second to tape in a 60i "wrapper" but do not insert the normal flags to easily extract the original 24 frames/sec. Through software like Cineform Neo you can do this. It is able to extract the original real 24p video. This is not like the old cinemode on the FX1 or Z1, which created a pseudo 24p from a 60i recording.

The HV40 does record 24p directly to tape so the workaround is unnecessary.

> isn't one of the main problems with DSLR video is that you
> can't do long, continuous shots?

A four minute song is a not a long take. A thirty minute interview is.

The large sensor and shallow depth of field will make for pretty music videos.

Yep, for recording an actual concert or something the 12 minute-ish record times would be a problem. For shooting music videos, with all the fast cuts, etc - I just cant see how it could be an issue.

The shallow depth of field and "overcranking" of the 7D are just some of the pluses. You also have access to tons of great Canon lenses and they are cheap to rent. The biggest plus in my opinion is the incredible low light performance.

I really would like to find someone who has or is using the H-S100 or H-S10 Cannon's.

I like the S100 as it has no internal storage and relies on external SDHC cards. It would be for outside shooting only and on occasion would get attached to a race car to film races.

Due to the sometimes harsh conditions I would rather not spend over $1500 for the camera as it is not unlikely it will die a premature death due to mechanical failure after it hits the track at 120MPH and gets run over by a few cars.

I have seen that happen and it is not pretty. Usually due to the mount shearing off the car after being hit by some debris.