I can concur with the invitation to trouble. I hot-swapped for a long time but recently I had two devices that wiped out two disks that cost me loads of time, Fortunately I didn't lose anything I don't have backed up but the cost in time to recover is many, many hours of work. In the big picture it would amount to about one thousand reboots to rebuild the lost disks.

Hot swapping seems to have wiped out the MBR and made the drives think they were memory cards and USB drives and stuff. I still don't know what went wrong but it did and it took about zero seconds to wipe them out..

Interesting... The same happened to me recently, and with a large external drive, too. But - always using "Safely remove" mechanism - I somehow suspect some software error...

Are you using Acronis True Image Home? Did it happen right after/before running this software with the eSATA as a target drive?

eSATA is unreliable IMO. Sometimes it will crash a computer with the Big long message Windows generates.."If you are seeing this screen, etc.........."

It sometimes requires a reboot before the drive is recognized. Definitely inviting trouble or data loss if you hot swap it. That seems only to work well with USB and firewire interfaces. eSATA is not ready for prime time.

John

The eSATA transfer speed is waaaaay way faster than USB. I'd rather be using eSATA than USB especially transferring enormous video files.

The eSATA enclosures don't use the power jack from the PC but use yet another power adapter that needs to be plugged in. Why don't they just use the existing power jack on the eSATA back plate?

The other option is SATA bays which will populate one of your needed SATA ports. I haven't seen any eSATA loadable bays anywhere. Most eSATA ports on PC's are not even been used today.

It is faster.

When it works.

Here is a better alternative.

You have to format the drive and assign it a drive letter, but this is how I do my backups and archive my footage.

John

If only that came in an eSATA option. You can't get these bay's in eSATA.
That bay will hog one of my SATA ports while the eSATA port remains open.

I went from eSATA to USB3 and will never look back! High speed, reliable hot swapping and just plain works great!!!

Throw the eSATA stuff in the trash. That's all it is worth!

If only that came in an eSATA option. You can't get these bay's in eSATA.
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eSATA port?

Do you mean the headers on the motherboard? On my motherboards you can plug a SATA cable into the eSATA header.

Also, if you were going to try hot swapping, did you configure it in the BIOS?

The mode for SATA needs to be the Advanced Host Controller Interface (AHCI) for hot swapping.

Let's start with your motherboard. Which model do you have? Link?

John

LightAds says,"The eSATA transfer speed is waaaaay way faster than USB."

You did not say which version of USB.

Infinitely faster than USB1, a lot faster than USB2 but the same as USB3 on my system.

And USB3 can hot swap without the problems of eSATA.

I've read in a number of forums where people talked about the poor connectors with eSATA and from my experience I 100% agree with them!

I've tried quite a number of eSATA devices and lost drives because of them. Thank goodness for backups!

I will no longer risk my data with eSATA!!!

I use this: Docking Station Thermaltake BlacX Duet ST0014U

Two HD in one eSATA conection

works fine here.

I connect and disconnect this with USB Safely Remove software.

Erni

Hah! You've kinda solved a quandary I've placed myself under. Namely that I would like to have yet another hottie for my Addonics SATA Snap-In Drive kit. Well, not having an extra SATA port on my MOBO I had to also purchase a SATA port multiplier, this gave me 4x SATAs internally, PLUS an external facing eSATA port. This meant I could put an eSATA device out there. What could I use it for? Hmm, let me think? Nope can't think of anything? Douh! I can get an eSATA docking station and run extra swap options to that, from my internals, including the SATA Snap-In.

A solution for me, but from the opposite direction.

Cheers

Grazie



Sometimes a solution is staring you in the chops, and yah just can't see it......

@craftech: Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EX-58 UD4P

I'm not too sure that USB 3 is faster than eSATA at the moment. It's promised that it'll be 10x faster but nobody has proven it yet.

I checked out this clip where they compared the two with large files as well and a bunch of small files. Interesting results. However with my mobo above I don't have a USB 3 port.

Also there are voltage differences between eSATA and SATA because the eSATA cable is expected to be longer and make allowences for that.

The point I was making is that all the internal docking bays wants to use a SATA port instead of a free eSATA port. If, on the other hand you use an external HD enclosure then you'd need another power point instead of power from the PC.

USB 3 solves this problem with the added power cables included into the new USB 3 cable design. In the future USB 3 is expected to push 5.0 Gbit/s.

"Also there are voltage differences between eSATA and SATA because the eSATA cable is expected to be longer and make allowences for that."

Um, no.

"The point I was making is that all the internal docking bays wants to use a SATA port instead of a free eSATA port. If, on the other hand you use an external HD enclosure then you'd need another power point instead of power from the PC. "

Oh dear, no again :(

The ONLY difference between SATA and eSATA is the connector. The eSATA connector provides positive locking and a ground connection. You can run a cable from your eSATA port into your case and connect that to an internal drive.

For around $20 you can buy an eSATA bracket that supplies power from your PC's power supply to an external SATA / eSATA drive. The data cable you just plug into your spare SATA ports. I have a dual eSATA bracket.

Bob.

"Um, no"

Um, yes!

eSATA has revised electrical requirements in addition to using shielded cables and different connectors:
Minimum transmit potential increased: Range is 500–600 mV instead of 400–600 mV.
Minimum receive potential decreased: Range is 240–600 mV instead of 325–600 mV.

Maximum cable length of 2 meters

The external cable connector equates to a shielded version of the connector specified in SATA 1.0a with these basic differences:

> The external connector has no "L"-shaped key, and the guide features are vertically offset and reduced in size. This prevents the use of unshielded internal cables in external applications and vice-versa.

> To prevent ESD damage, the design increased insertion depth from 5 mm to 6.6 mm and the contacts are mounted farther back in both the receptacle and plug.

> To provide EMI protection and meet FCC and CE emission requirements, the cable has an extra layer of shielding, and the connectors have metal contact-points.

> The connector shield has springs as retention features built in on both the top and bottom surfaces.

> The external connector and cable have a design-life of over five thousand insertions and removals, whereas the internal connector is specified to withstand only fifty.

Sorry John but how is any of that relevant to LightAds problem?

That mobo has no specific eSATA ports, any eSATA port would simply be doing exactly what I described and what thousands of others are doing, making eSATA interconnections from SATA ports. Here's a bracket similar to the one I use here It is purely a physical interconnection, mine also has the 4 pin Molex socket on it so I can run the external HDD from the PC's supply, no external power supply required.
Type "I" to type "L" cables are not common but are available so as I said LightAds will have no issues mounting a HDD INSIDE his case and connecting it to the eSATA port.
Thinking that through a bit more though he could avoid all that by simply disconnecting the cable to the eSATA connector and connecting the HDD to the SATA connector directly on the mobo.
The changes made to the signal levels were to ensure operation over longer cable lengths, the shielded cable for similar reasons. By design protocols are not changed so that SATA and eSATA can interoperate. LightAds has gotten himself painted into a corner because he seems not to understand this.

Bob.

Actually the mobo DOES have 2 eSATA ports and 6 SATA ports (which are populated). The mobo comes with a backing plate which plugs onto the mobo' eSATA ports. Then eSATA cables (without L shape plug) plugs into the backing plate and into the external bare HD (no enclosure). Also on the backing plate is a power connector for the HD. So these 2 cables hang from the back of my PC. My original question was "Are these hot swopable?". Which I now understand is no.

I think any of these docking bays could be made to work from any of the 2 free eSATA ports but will it be hot swopable? I think not.

"Actually the mobo DOES have 2 eSATA ports and 6 SATA ports (which are populated). "

The mobos specs just state 8 SATA ports. You can use them either way really, just need the cables / brackets. Check page 22 of your mobo manual, you can plug the cables from the bracket into any SATA port on the mobo.

As far as I know the whole hot swappable issue has nothing directly to do with the physical interface and a lot to do with the OS.
As I said there is no difference in the communication protocol between SATA and eSATA. The electrical differences as John rightly points out only relate to the length of the cable that eSATA is spec'ed for. So what I'm really trying to say is they might or might not be but it'll have nothing that I can think of to do with them being eSATA or SATA. There's various things around that connect to SATA and eSATA ports that are supposed to be hot swappable based on the OS. Reports I've read and as you'll read above show this is all a bit flaky. Personally I would not trust it at all no matter how you make the connection.
If you want safe hot swap forget SATA/eSATA and go for firewire or USB.

Bob.

Actually the mobo DOES have 2 eSATA ports and 6 SATA ports (which are populated).
===========================================
Actually it does NOT have 2 eSATA ports.

Your motherboard is like most current motherboards in that it has two controllers for SATA.

The six SATA ports are controlled by the ICH10R South Bridge Controller.

The other two are controlled by the GIGABYTE SATA2 SATA Controller.

Other than the controller, there is no real difference. All eight are SATA ports. The device drivers for each controller should have been installed when the OS was installed.

In the back of your motherboard you have simply extended an ordinary SATA port to the back. The bracket also has a power extension that is internally connected. Personally I find those setups very inconvenient because they are in the back. That is why I suggested the internal drive caddy I linked above.

If you have an empty bay in front of your computer case and all eight SATA connectors are populated as you said, you can connect the caddy's SATA connector to the same place you have your rear bracket connected. Just disconnect the rear bracket first. Same with the power connector. Disconnect it from the rear bracket and connect it to the caddy.

Now you can insert or remove the internal hard drives from the front of the computer. That leaves only one issue. That you want hot swapping capability.

In the BIOS under integrated peripherals there are settings for both controllers. If you are looking for hot swapping capability for something plugged into the two ports controlled by the GIGABYTE SATA2 SATA Controller, then the SATA RAID/AHCI Mode for that controller needs to be configured for AHCI.

That is best done before the OS is installed, but it is less of a problem with Windows 7 which I see you are running. Any device you plug in should be automatically recognized by Windows without having to reboot. When you enable that mode the BIOS Standard CMOS Features will probably no longer show the other devices connected to the SATA ports on the motherboard, but Windows will. If you disable AHCI mode they will re-appear in the BIOS. This should not be an issue.

John

Just to be clear here because it is getting confusing.

The issue I was trying to address arose when it was suggested you consider using an internal dock.
You said you couldn't because all your 6 SATA ports were in use, you only had 2 eSATA ports left.
I was trying to point out that if you simply unplugged the cables from the bracket that would free up two SATA ports and you could then use an internal dock.
There is actually on your mobo 6 SATA II ports and 2 SATA III ports, that has no connection to the whole eSATA / SATA issue as far as I know.

Bob.

Thanks Farss & Craftech for the rather in depth tech specs and configuration suggestions for my mobo. Also thanks John for confirming the voltage differences between the 2 SATA ports.

Thanks Farss & Craftech for the rather in depth tech specs and configuration suggestions for my mobo. Also thanks John for confirming the voltage differences between the 2 SATA ports.
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As long as you realize now (as Bob and I both explained to you) that you do not have a native eSATA header (port) on your motherboard, nor do you need one.

John

Regarding the OP:


I believe this was touched on, but not made clear; if you are not running AHCI mode, and requesting an eject of the drive - there is always the risk of data loss or corruption if you unplug the drive ..