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LarsHD
wrote on 9/14/2009, 1:45 PM
Comments
farss
wrote on 9/14/2009, 2:24 PM
Those portable players use dedicated hardware decoders.
On PCs you can use the video card's GPU to decode, much better suited than the CPU.
Those portable players can't handle things like rasterising vector graphics so well.
Bob.
On PCs you can use the video card's GPU to decode, much better suited than the CPU.
Those portable players can't handle things like rasterising vector graphics so well.
Bob.
Grazie
wrote on 9/14/2009, 2:41 PM
Yeah, give it a Raster and it Mash-up!
Grazie
Grazie
Hulk
wrote on 9/14/2009, 5:04 PM
First of all look at how many more pixels must be process at 1080p than at 480x270! Right there you are looking at 16 times less overhead for the iPhone. In addition the bitrate (per pixel) generally is quite low for this type of heavily compressed iPhone video.
Also, both my C2D's computers can do smooth 1080p AVCHD playback. One is 3GHz and the other is 3.2GHz. I use Nero Showtime for playback software.
- Mark
Also, both my C2D's computers can do smooth 1080p AVCHD playback. One is 3GHz and the other is 3.2GHz. I use Nero Showtime for playback software.
- Mark
johnmeyer
wrote on 9/14/2009, 5:16 PM
It's all about the software.
I use VLC.
I'm currently running some software that is using 94-97% of all eight cores. I just fired up VLC and played an MP4 that I created a few months ago in Vegas. I can play it full screen with no hiccups or problems.
Most playback software is flawed, and unfortunately this includes Vegas. I have posted before of how I can get perfect playback of MPEG-2 files and AVCHD files using various external frameserving techniques back into Vegas. Of course Vegas is doing a lot more than playing back and has to be able to play backwards as well as forwards, and also has to be able to show video that has been altered. But, if all you need is good playback of MP4, you should be able to do it just fine on pretty much any PC if you use VLC.
I use VLC.
I'm currently running some software that is using 94-97% of all eight cores. I just fired up VLC and played an MP4 that I created a few months ago in Vegas. I can play it full screen with no hiccups or problems.
Most playback software is flawed, and unfortunately this includes Vegas. I have posted before of how I can get perfect playback of MPEG-2 files and AVCHD files using various external frameserving techniques back into Vegas. Of course Vegas is doing a lot more than playing back and has to be able to play backwards as well as forwards, and also has to be able to show video that has been altered. But, if all you need is good playback of MP4, you should be able to do it just fine on pretty much any PC if you use VLC.
LarsHD
wrote on 9/15/2009, 9:50 AM
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Coursedesign
wrote on 9/15/2009, 9:57 AM
For the last 4 years, we've been pleading for Vegas to support GPU acceleration (although there were a lot of naysayers here: "It can't be done!," "it's impossible to do this because...," etc.).
May the fifth year be the charm!
Sony would only have to follow the lead of the dozen or so other video software vendors who support this...
May the fifth year be the charm!
Sony would only have to follow the lead of the dozen or so other video software vendors who support this...
LarsHD
wrote on 9/15/2009, 10:47 AM
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deusx
wrote on 9/15/2009, 10:59 AM
480x270 mp4 is shit. Who wants to watch video of that size on anything, so whether it plays smoothly or not makes no difference.
On the other hand, I've never had any trouble playing video of any size with flash player in a browser, or full HD on a 1980 x 1200 screen ( Files captured from something like cannon hv20 ) . Plays at full speed without any hickups on pretty average core2 duo laptops ( 2.0 and 2.2 ghz, both of them ).
When I render out MP4 files from Vegas I usually go for 1/2 of full HD size or at the very minimum 640 x 360, even that is pretty small on a hi-res screen ( 1680 x 1050 or better ).
On the other hand, I've never had any trouble playing video of any size with flash player in a browser, or full HD on a 1980 x 1200 screen ( Files captured from something like cannon hv20 ) . Plays at full speed without any hickups on pretty average core2 duo laptops ( 2.0 and 2.2 ghz, both of them ).
When I render out MP4 files from Vegas I usually go for 1/2 of full HD size or at the very minimum 640 x 360, even that is pretty small on a hi-res screen ( 1680 x 1050 or better ).
LarsHD
wrote on 9/15/2009, 11:16 AM
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LarsHD
wrote on 9/15/2009, 2:21 PM
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Jay Gladwell
wrote on 9/15/2009, 2:35 PM
"How come the XDCAM viewer application plays back my MXF files perfectly smooth but it isn't so smooth when the same files are played though Vegas?"
Like John said earlier--"software"
XDCAM Viewer was design to do ONE thing, play MXF files. What all does Vegas do?
LarsHD
wrote on 9/15/2009, 3:02 PM
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John_Cline
wrote on 9/15/2009, 3:08 PM
An MXF file is a container like an AVI or MOV file but so is an MP4 file. MP4, officially known as MPEG-4 Part 14, typically uses h.264 compression, but an MP4 file can contain MPEG2 or even MPEG1 and MJPEG2000 compressed video. MP4 is essentially identical to the MOV format, but adds a few features and the format is administered by Apple Computer.
XDCAM MXF files use long-GOP MPEG2 as their video codec. MPEG2 is relatively simple compared to h.264 and easier to decompress. MPEG2 has been around for a long time and the code has been highly optimized over the years.
The Quicktime player is a HORRID media player. It might work fine on a MAC, but the code hasn't been optimized for PCs at all. Hmmm, I wonder why...
XDCAM MXF files use long-GOP MPEG2 as their video codec. MPEG2 is relatively simple compared to h.264 and easier to decompress. MPEG2 has been around for a long time and the code has been highly optimized over the years.
The Quicktime player is a HORRID media player. It might work fine on a MAC, but the code hasn't been optimized for PCs at all. Hmmm, I wonder why...
Stuart Robinson
wrote on 9/15/2009, 3:20 PM
John is right, QuickTime is an absolute bear on Windows and I don't think it has been optimised for the platform for years...
Why not install a H.264 CODEC that'll work in Windows Media Player and see how that fares? Try CoreAVC, which is also optimised for CUDA video hardware.
Why not install a H.264 CODEC that'll work in Windows Media Player and see how that fares? Try CoreAVC, which is also optimised for CUDA video hardware.
Coursedesign
wrote on 9/15/2009, 3:29 PM
I would expect Lars would prefer a codec and player that the end user already has, so they don't have to download something just to watch HIS video.
Some industry people say Microsoft has worked hard every year to make sure QT doesn't compete too well with MS's media player, since it isn’t under their control.
For high-res video that will play on any modern PCs or Mac, just render to a non-H.264 Flash codec such as VP6.
Some industry people say Microsoft has worked hard every year to make sure QT doesn't compete too well with MS's media player, since it isn’t under their control.
For high-res video that will play on any modern PCs or Mac, just render to a non-H.264 Flash codec such as VP6.
LarsHD
wrote on 9/15/2009, 3:33 PM
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farss
wrote on 9/15/2009, 3:52 PM
That's a lot to even try to answer, especially to someone who does not seem to grasp the basics of computers. You need to understand the difference between dedicated hardware and software and general purpose hardware and software. I'd expand that to everything in life, even architecture.
The SI-2K camera that uses a quite low end Intel CPU and NVidia GPU running XPe can encode 10bit Cineform RAW at 2K in realtime. At the same time it can decode it, apply a 3D LUT, provide false color metering and RGB parade. You can do the same on a PC or Mac laptop that has the right chipsets. The code is optimised for just those chipsets and uses specific drivers. Choose the wrong network card / chipset and it all falls apart.
The iPhone can do some wonderous things. There's also a universe of things it cannot do, it cannot even multitask like the WME or Android phones can do. Choose your poison. You'll never get stuttery playback of mp4 on an iPhone because when it's doing that all else is killed off. It's pretty easy to get stuttery playback on the other phones because you can keep GPS tracking etc, etc running while you watch the video.
Comparing any mobile device to a PC or a Mac is also silly. The hardware in a mobile device can only decode one stream, the general purpose hardware and software in personal computer will make a heroic effort at decoding as many streams as you ask it to.
You've also overlooked the question of what is a PC or a Mac entirely. There's plenty of older Macs around that'd have considerable difficulty playing mp4.
PS1. The XDCAM viewer does not do a full decode.
PS2. You need to qualify your question. Also be careful in your use of MXF. MXF is only a wrapper. Vegas cannot handle most MXF, only the one used by XDCAM which contain mpeg-2. Note that Vegas 8 appears incapable of handling MXF created in V9.
There is simply no way to know for certain what a viewers experience will be. Mobile devices are a nightmare. Adobe provides Device Central to give you a bit of a shot at checking functionality on a wide range of mobile device, you'd be shocked at what could happen to your carefully crafted work.
In general you have kind of nutted it out. You have to shoot for the encode. You have to consider the impact of what you do in post to both the encoding and decoding.
Bob.
The SI-2K camera that uses a quite low end Intel CPU and NVidia GPU running XPe can encode 10bit Cineform RAW at 2K in realtime. At the same time it can decode it, apply a 3D LUT, provide false color metering and RGB parade. You can do the same on a PC or Mac laptop that has the right chipsets. The code is optimised for just those chipsets and uses specific drivers. Choose the wrong network card / chipset and it all falls apart.
The iPhone can do some wonderous things. There's also a universe of things it cannot do, it cannot even multitask like the WME or Android phones can do. Choose your poison. You'll never get stuttery playback of mp4 on an iPhone because when it's doing that all else is killed off. It's pretty easy to get stuttery playback on the other phones because you can keep GPS tracking etc, etc running while you watch the video.
Comparing any mobile device to a PC or a Mac is also silly. The hardware in a mobile device can only decode one stream, the general purpose hardware and software in personal computer will make a heroic effort at decoding as many streams as you ask it to.
You've also overlooked the question of what is a PC or a Mac entirely. There's plenty of older Macs around that'd have considerable difficulty playing mp4.
PS1. The XDCAM viewer does not do a full decode.
PS2. You need to qualify your question. Also be careful in your use of MXF. MXF is only a wrapper. Vegas cannot handle most MXF, only the one used by XDCAM which contain mpeg-2. Note that Vegas 8 appears incapable of handling MXF created in V9.
There is simply no way to know for certain what a viewers experience will be. Mobile devices are a nightmare. Adobe provides Device Central to give you a bit of a shot at checking functionality on a wide range of mobile device, you'd be shocked at what could happen to your carefully crafted work.
In general you have kind of nutted it out. You have to shoot for the encode. You have to consider the impact of what you do in post to both the encoding and decoding.
Bob.
LarsHD
wrote on 9/15/2009, 4:41 PM
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Stuart Robinson
wrote on 9/15/2009, 6:03 PM
>I would expect Lars would prefer a codec and player that the end user already has, so they don't have to download something just to watch HIS video<
The CoreAVC CODEC is a playback H.264 software solution, not a proprietary encode CODEC such as CineForm. It can be used by Windows Media Player, VirtualDub etc. to play back any H.264 video, either created by Vegas, QuickTime etc or by an AVCHD camera.
I suggested it because the OP wants smooth -playback- of videos on his PC, and as CoreAVC is CUDA enabled, thereby using the advanced GPU features on nVidia cards, thought it might be worth a try, especially as it is widely regarded to be the fastest H.264 CODEC available.
Website: http://www.coreavc.com/
The CoreAVC CODEC is a playback H.264 software solution, not a proprietary encode CODEC such as CineForm. It can be used by Windows Media Player, VirtualDub etc. to play back any H.264 video, either created by Vegas, QuickTime etc or by an AVCHD camera.
I suggested it because the OP wants smooth -playback- of videos on his PC, and as CoreAVC is CUDA enabled, thereby using the advanced GPU features on nVidia cards, thought it might be worth a try, especially as it is widely regarded to be the fastest H.264 CODEC available.
Website: http://www.coreavc.com/
LarsHD
wrote on 9/16/2009, 12:03 AM
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apit34356
wrote on 9/16/2009, 10:36 AM
I think Farss points are valid. But I agree with Coursedesign advice about Flash or VP6, its the most common install player I believe and performs well.