1080i HDV to 720p WMV - going nuts!

Espen wrote on 1/31/2006, 1:10 PM

Thanks to all of you who helped med on my first post regarding Vegas an HD WMV (http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=436551&Replies=11). I still have a HUGE problem!

Every time I try to convert a 25fps PAL HDV-clip in Vegas from .AVI (Cineform 1080i) to a 720p WMV-clip (Windows Media Video) I get serious trouble. The problem is all the motions tend to look like the video has been shot with very high shutter-speed (its not!).

The motions are far, far from smooth.

Whenever something is moving, you get the feeling the whole picture is jumping from frame to frame. My guess is I have done something wrong on the way from interlaced 1080 HDV to progressive 720 WMV.

When I render the same clip for DVD (the default Mpg2-template), it looks just fine.

I've posted a sample-clip on my server, it's less than 10Mb, and lasts for 14 seconds. It's a toy-train going on a small wooden track. Feel free to take a look at it, and please help me out, I'm going nuts here ;-)

http://195.159.129.76:81/espen/test08.wmv

The clip was shot on a Sony HDR-HC1E PAL-camera, then captured with Cineform HD-connect, using interlace-setting 1080i. The Vegas project-settings are
Field order = Upper field first
Full resolution = Good
Motion blur = Gaussian
Deinterlace = None

I've followed Martin's advice and downloaded the "smart deinterlace" plugin for vegas.The clips has then been deinterlaced the way Martin suggested :
"Motion processing" -> "Field only"
"Compare color channels" -> On
"Use cubic for interpolation" -> On
"Motion map denoising" -> On
"Motion threshold" -> 5
"Scene change threshold" -> 100
All other boxes unchecked.

Finally I rendered the clip to WMV using theVegas- template named "5 Mbps HD 720-25p Video".

I'm really hoping for your help!

Yours
Espen

Comments

Serena wrote on 1/31/2006, 4:22 PM

The clip looks fine on my laptop. I can find no interlacing artifacts and on pause each frame is as expected (appropriate motion blur). What specifically do you see for each frame? Is your computer keeping up with 25fps?

OdieInAz wrote on 1/31/2006, 4:54 PM

Looks fine on my laptop. Task manager shows 70% - 80% cpu utilization when playing.

DJPadre wrote on 1/31/2006, 5:46 PM

Field order = Upper field first
Full resolution = Good
Motion blur = Gaussian
Deinterlace = None

HUH??

If ur wanting to output to progressive from an interlaced source, u SHOULD deinterlace... as for resolution i would also recommend best..

Serena wrote on 1/31/2006, 5:57 PM

Yes, BEST; omitted that. However the project parameters look correct to me. Deinterlacing occurs later in the process -- but please correct that if wrong.

Espen wrote on 1/31/2006, 10:36 PM

Thank's to all of you who downloaded my testclip.

I guess the next step is to run the clip on other systems than my own. In a few weeks I'll be buying a 43" from Pioneer, hooking up a MCE-pc to that tv should be the final test.

Espen

PS! I use a plugin for deinterlacing.

mdopp wrote on 1/31/2006, 10:36 PM

Espen,
I've reviewed the clip on my PC and the motion is perfectly fine. This is all you can expect from 25p. If you want smooth motion, use either 25i (= 50 fields per second) or 50p (= 50 frames per second).

Please make sure your monitor is set to a refresh rate of either 50 Hz or 75 Hz.
If you are using an LCD at 60 Hz there will be jitter because the computer has to output 25 frames per second to a 60 picture per second refresh rate which just doesn't fit.
I am using a good old 19" CRT as secondary monitor for previewing my videos (set to 75 Hz at a resolution of 1600x1200).

If you really want to try 50p, here's how:
(but be aware - the workflow is *very* cubersome)

You'll need:
- AviSynth 2.5
- Smooth Deinterlacer Filter (from Gunnar Thalin)
- VirtualDub
All are freeware and can easily be found by googling the names.

1) Export your final project from Vegas to cineform AVI (in 25i, do not deinterlace!)
2) write a script for AviSynth:
AVISource("Test.avi")
ComplementParity
SeparateFields
Name the file "test.avs".
3) Start VirtualDub and open the scriptfile as if it were a video file
4) Select "Video"->"Compression"->"Cineform"
5) Select "Video"->"Filters"->"Add"->"deinterlace - smooth v1.1"
6) Render "File"->"Save as Avi"

Now go back to Vegas. Load the rendered file and change the project's properties to "Field order: None", "Deinterlace: None" and "Frame rate: 50 (Double PAL)".

Finally render the file as wmv, but change the framerate to 50 (instead of 25).

This will give you the most fluid motion possible. But if your monitor is still set to 60 Hz it won't probably play back as smooth as you like to see ;-)

Good luck
Martin

mdopp wrote on 2/1/2006, 9:01 PM

BTW, playback of WMV-HD needs a lot of computing power.
A CPU of 3 GHz or more is recommended. Also you should have a good graphics card. Mainboard integrated graphics or shared memory graphics will probably not be able to deliver smooth playback.

Espen wrote on 2/2/2006, 2:16 AM

Again, thank's for your help!

The last thing I did was to render the Cineform-clip to a .mt2-stream, and printing it back to the HDV-camera.

When I then connect the camera to my SD-tv, the motions are all smooth as a babys skin.

The conclusins are:
1. Its' hard to get smooth motions from HDV to HD-WMV-clips as long as you use PALs 25fps
2. I did never test the clip on a really powerful pc.
3. If you export to MPG2, motions are much smoother.
4. I need a HD TV-set, and I need it bad!

Espen ;-)