1920X1080-60i 10 Mbps template bug? Sony's answer

steveinco wrote on 1/16/2010, 5:03 PM
Read Sony Tech support final solution in a reply I posted at the end of this thread.

Hello all. I am new to this forum and Sony Vegas Movie 9. I am new to computer NLE editing for video.

I am using Platinum 9.0b build 92. I have sent a message to Sony Tech Support about an issue I ran into, so far no response from Tech Support after several days.

I was trying to burn a Blu-ray project to a DVD disc with format: Sony AVC .mp4 I was using the Blu-ray 1920 X 1080-60i, 16 Mbps video stream template. This worked well. Eventually I had too much on the timeline to use the 16 Mbps rate. I then chose the Blu-ray 1920 X 1080-60i, 10 Mbps template. I could not play the disc on my blu-ray player. I then noticed that most 1920 X 1080-60i templates state in the description box that the frame rate is 29.970 fps. The exception was the 10 Mbps rate, it shows a frame rate of 25.000 fps. This does not seem consistent to me. Doesn't 60i always go with 29.970 fps for NTSC? Doesn't 50i always go with 25.000 fps for PAL?

In both render to hard drive and burn to disc, the templates for 1920 X 1080-60i, 10 Mbps show a frame rate of 25.000.

Anyone else have any problems with the 1920 X 1080-60i, 10 Mbps template or does it work for you?

Thanks in advance for any comments.

Comments

musicvid10 wrote on 1/16/2010, 5:18 PM
I believe you are the second person to report this same problem.

If Sony is taking a long time to respond, ask them again on the same support ticket. The squeaky wheel gets the grease around here.
Eugenia wrote on 1/16/2010, 6:02 PM
It might be on purpose. 25 fps is 5 fps fewer than 30, so less mbps won't look as bad on fewer frames. So while the bitrate might look acceptable at 25 fps, might be breaking down at 30, so it might be like that by design. Still, not a good usability.
Markk655 wrote on 1/16/2010, 7:12 PM
I checked it out on my system and rendered to the 60i/25 fps stream. It does render out at 25 fps per Nero Showtime. It is probably just an easy to fix bug in the custom template. Perhaps in Build 9.0C or in 10.0?
steveinco wrote on 1/18/2010, 9:35 AM
Hello all. I am new to this forum and Sony Vegas Movie 9. I am new to computer NLE editing for video.

I am using Platinum 9.0b build 92. I have sent a message to Sony Tech Support about an issue I ran into, so far no response from Tech Support after several days.

I was trying to burn a Blu-ray project to a DVD disc with format: Sony AVC .mp4 I was using the Blu-ray 1920 X 1080-60i, 16 Mbps video stream template. This worked well. Eventually I had too much on the timeline to use the 16 Mbps rate. I then chose the Blu-ray 1920 X 1080-60i, 10 Mbps template. I could not play the disc on my blu-ray player. I then noticed that most 1920 X 1080-60i templates state in the description box that the frame rate is 29.970 fps. The exception was the 10 Mbps rate, it shows a frame rate of 25.000 fps. This does not seem consistent to me. Doesn't 60i always go with 29.970 fps for NTSC? Doesn't 50i always go with 25.000 fps for PAL?

In both render to hard drive and burn to disc, the templates for 1920 X 1080-60i, 10 Mbps show a frame rate of 25.000.

Anyone else have any problems with the 1920 X 1080-60i, 10 Mbps template or does it work for you?

=====================================================================
Technical support's answer. Still a problem in my opinion. Read further down for my reply.

Hi Steve,

Thank you for contacting Sony Creative Software.

There is a template for 1920 X 1080-60i and 1920 X 1080-50i, both of which render at 16 or 10 mbps, depending on which template is chosen. The 16mbps template appears to be rendering as intended. The 60i 10 mbps template is rendering 25fps, as stated in the template description when choosing the render template.

You may click the Custom tab, then click the video tab in the custom menu, and set the frame rate to 29.970 (NTSC).

If you still have a follow-up question on this particular incident, please feel free to update it. If you have a completely different question, please create a new incident.

Sincerely,

Eric D.
Customer Service & Technical Support
=====================================================================

My reply:

It is still my opinion that 25 fps is for PAL or European standards. At any rate, my Sony Blu-Ray player (latest one out) will not work with a disc burned at 25 fps. Both 10 Mbps 60i and 50i create 25 fps output. The other Mbps rates do not. That cannot be right.

I cannot customize the burn to disc as Eric suggests. I can customize on save to hard drive but eventually I need to create a Blu-ray disc. There is no customize when doing that. I am stuck with the pre-set templates.
Jose M. Estrada wrote on 1/18/2010, 10:12 AM
Steve, this may work for you: Choose your template,then hit the custom button in the next box that will open you'll have four tabs in the bottom, click the one labeled video in frame rate pulldown menu choose 29.970(NTSC) If you want you can rename this template then hit ok, and i think you are ready to go. Hope this helps.
steveinco wrote on 1/18/2010, 10:25 AM
Not possible in my version of VMS. When I try to burn to disc there is no way to customize. I can only select the available templates. The program then starts to render files. When that is done the compilation is prepared then the burn to disc starts. At no point does the program present a customize option before the burn starts. Only when I save files to hard drive can I see the customize video/audio tabs. That is OK but at some point I still need to go through the burn to disc procedure and then I am again stuck with only the preset templates and I end up with the 25 fps rate for 60i.
steveinco wrote on 1/18/2010, 3:13 PM
My rant concerning Sony and Customer support at end

Sony Tech support original reply

Customer (Steve Scott) 01/18/2010 11:24 AM
Hi Steve,

Thank you for contacting Sony Creative Software.

There is a template for 1920 X 1080-60i and 1920 X 1080-50i, both of which render at 16 or 10 mbps, depending on which template is chosen. The 16mbps template appears to be rendering as intended. The 60i 10 mbps template is rendering 25fps, as stated in the template description when choosing the render template.

You may click the Custom tab, then click the video tab in the custom menu, and set the frame rate to 29.970 (NTSC).

If you still have a follow-up question on this particular incident, please feel free to update it. If you have a completely different question, please create a new incident.

Sincerely,

Eric D.
Customer Service & Technical Support
Sony Creative Software Inc
====================================================================
My reply to Sony Tech Support on that solution:

There is no way to customize the template when selecting burn to disc so I cannot change the frames per second. Customize is available only saving to hard drive. Eventually I need to burn to Blu-ray disc. I cannot customize the video when doing that.

Yes, the 60i template is rendering at 25 fps as stated in the description. Check both 60i and 50i, both have 25 fps. I am saying that is wrong. My Sony Blu-ray player will not play a 25 fps (European standard) frame rate. And thats what 25 fps is, and it does not go with 60i for NTSC.

======================================================================
Tech support final reply:

Hi Steve,

Thank you for contacting Sony Creative Software.

This is a known issue that is logged into the database to be resolved in a future update of the application. We do not schedule release dates for software updates, as they need to pass a battery of QA testing prior to release.

If you still have a follow-up question on this particular incident, please feel free to update it. If you have a completely different question, please create a new incident.

Sincerely,

Eric D.
Customer Service & Technical Support
Sony Creative Software Inc
www.sonycreativesoftware.com

======================================================================
The rant begins:

So it sounds like it is a real problem. Now, will I have to pay for an update? Will it be version 10? How long will this take? I may have a Blu-ray recorder drive for the computer by then and can avoid the problem.

Did they really do much QA testing for Version 9.0b, or is it the Sony customers' responsibility to find the problems?

The Sony projection TV set I have now developed problems with the optical block causing a gree/yellow tint to the picture. This required a class action suit against Sony to get this repaired out of the normal warranty period.

The Sony DVD player I had previous to the Blu-ray player developed a problem within 2 weeks. This was another major problem Sony had with this model of DVD player. All players of this model were recalled by Sony for repair. This took one month for my player to come back.

In the past Sony has had trouble with the public concerning the installation of root kits on consumers computers thanks to Sony media.

Sony is extremely concerned about pirated Sony software and media, yet the Sony offices in France were raided by French police and what was discovered? - Sony was using pirated software of course!

Does anyone in Sony really give a rip about quality or customer satisfaction?