2-cam edit in V4 - tips n tricks?

ken c wrote on 8/8/2005, 2:01 PM
Hi all -- now that I've got 18 hours of raw footage from the www.megaseminar.com to edit down into 12-14 1-hr DVDs, the fun begins!

Here's my question, I'm using my trusty V4 --

Any tips on how to simplify and save time, make the workload easier, for doing a 2-cam edit? I've never done one before (wee!),
and from what I know, you:

a) put both cams' footage on the timeline
b) since non-smtpe-synched, I get to do the old "match up audio waveforms" routine for both timelines (hassle since some dropped frames in 1 cam.. tips?)
c) "cut out" pieces of video from 2nd timeline below, or 1st video timeline above, using "s" twice? and non-ripple enabled, to let whichever video stream I want to show through, show through..

Questions:

a) About how often should I flip between cam 1 and cam 2? Let it go 20-30 seconds between cam shots, or make it faster, 10-15 seconds or...? What's best, for a dynamic lively group of speakers, giving rousing presentations onstage 1 at a time, mostly medium-shots of head to waist?

b) any tips on making what looks to be a monster editing job, any easier? I have the earlier excalibur/neon scripts for V4 ... and tsunami.. that's it.. and a contour shuttle pro2 (thx Jodie)...


thanks much all -- best ideas get a free "highlights DVD" when they're out, remind me..

Ken

Comments

Coursedesign wrote on 8/8/2005, 2:06 PM
a) About how often should I flip between cam 1 and cam 2? Let it go 20-30 seconds between cam shots, or make it faster, 10-15 seconds or...? What's best, for a dynamic lively group of speakers, giving rousing presentations onstage 1 at a time, mostly medium-shots of head to waist?

You don't say what the A and B cam were shooting. Was it a medium closeup on A and audience on B, or a wideshot of presenter+audience on B?

You want much more time on the presenters than on the audience. Only use audience shots after the end of a key point. There are some good tricks to add, but you need to say what footage you have.

b) any tips on making what looks to be a monster editing job, any easier? I have the earlier excalibur/neon scripts for V4 ... and tsunami.. that's it..

Excalibur's multicam feature for sure.
jetdv wrote on 8/8/2005, 2:16 PM
Ken, take a look at Vol 1 #9 of my newsletters. That issue gives you four different methods for editing multi-cam.
ken c wrote on 8/8/2005, 2:48 PM
thanks, great tips ... the footage is cam 1 medium-wide presenter shoot, and cam 2 45 degree angle closer medium shot presenter shoots, almost no audience shots for this one..

will do re using excalibur, looks like a great time-saver ..

any suggestions re cam 1 to cam 2 shot transitions, how often, given the footage is pretty much just straight-on vs angled, of same subject, same shot width?

And Edward - thanks a million for the newsletter link, I wasnt aware of how to use video composite envelopes, I'd just used volume ones previously .. it's great to be able to sync it w/excalibur sync wizard and then fade in/out using a video composite envelope in realtime! to see the cam2 footage... superb way to see when/where to add cut/fade points.. now I've gotta figure out how to make the most of sync wizard...

thanks for saving me a lot of time, much appreciated!

ken
B.Verlik wrote on 8/8/2005, 3:19 PM
The way I've done it it the past, is I line both cameras, one above the other, with sound lined up. (Choose the cam with best sound, after it's lined up, by muting the other one) If you dropped frames, you may have to line each of those sections up. (maybe add "empty events", trimmed into the spaces to keep things in line later) I suggest using one of the SMPTE timecodes anyway. Put a compositing line on the top video track. and if the line is up, you see the top camera, if the line is down you see the bottom camera. (just like the volume line, you add a dot and move the line up or down) You can cross fade at different speeds or a sudden cut from on cam to the next. There's nothing that fast about doing it, to make it interesting, a lot of camera changes are needed. (sometimes you just have to mute the top cam, to see the bottom cam quickly, just to get a quick view of what is going on with the other cam) But you don't need to actually chop each section apart and stick them together.
ken c wrote on 8/8/2005, 3:38 PM
Thanks Steve, hadn't thought about empty events, that's good for placeholding .. since some have dropped frames, will need to put those in to maintain continuity .. appreciate the tips..

ken
B.Verlik wrote on 8/8/2005, 3:47 PM
Troubles i've had in the past doing very long sections of video, is if you chop sections out of the middle, for some reason, sometimes the sync of video and audio goes wacky. On an occasion or two, it happened on render, but not when playing in timeline. Go figure.
Good luck, you've got your work cut out.
riredale wrote on 8/8/2005, 10:25 PM
Much of what I do is two-camera shooting. It's really a lot of fun once you get the timelines synced up, and putting in a second (or ideally a third) camera angle really adds value to the final product.

There are lots of different ways of doing the editing; the way I prefer is to shrink Cam 1 and Cam 2 video to slightly smaller than 1/4 frame and put them in the bottom left and right corners of the preview window, respectively. Then I create a third empty video track below the two video tracks. This third video track will become the master video track. I run the videos, watching both smaller inserts. When a suitable time comes for switching from one camera to the other, I put in a split on that track and do a copy and paste to the bottom track. You kind of get a "feel" for when to make the switches back and forth, and what kind of transition to use.

As for how long to keep a camera shot, try editing a short piece with short segments and then with long segments, and see what feels better. I think we all quickly learn what is "best" just from watching so much professionally-edited TV over the years. I would guess that for talking heads, you probably want to keep a fairly long Camera 1 shot, with occasional shorter establishing shots and audience shots.
J_Mac wrote on 8/9/2005, 4:08 AM
I have also 'flipped horizontal' the 45 degree camera shot for short sequences, to add a little more interest. Depends on the background and other factors, especially not good if they 'talk with their hands', have lapel pins or other right vs left specific visuals. John
ken c wrote on 8/9/2005, 5:11 AM
Hey these are some terrific ideas, thanks very much for sharing them, I'll try them out... nice idea re virtual cam3 w/horiz flips if no
lapel pins etc.. and agree, good idea to try out a couple of versions w/longer transitions vs shorter, to get a feel for what looks best onscreen.

I really appreciate the help from all of you, as I'm new to Vegas/NLE, just started last year ... your tips are all making it worthwhile.. saves a lot of time And produces a much more professional end product.. thanks ...!

hey 'keep em coming', this could be a good thread for multicam edit strategies & tips .. for everyone to share..


ken