24p/30p DVD on LCD via 60i

jkrepner wrote on 2/20/2006, 6:52 AM
Okay, before doing lots of testing on my own, I wanted to see what you guys/gals think I should do. I'm working on a video that will be shown on a 23" widescreen LCD TV. I shot 60i. Since LCD is a progressive screen by nature and since I shot interlaced, should I render my timeline to DVD as progressive? If so, 24 or 30?

I guess 30P from Vegas would be better than letting the LCD TV do it, right?

Thanks in advance.

Jeff

Comments

jkrepner wrote on 2/21/2006, 7:05 AM
Just thought I'd pass this on. I ended up getting a 23" HDTV LCD display in order to make sure I see what my client sees. First, I wanted to cry looking at my interlace footage on an HDTV LCD progressive display. I don't think I've ever, ever, seen a worse picture! I have VHS footage that looks better. I ended up rendering the project as 30P and the picture looks way better. So, the moral of the store is... HD LCD only looks good when getting a signal in its native format. Standard def Interlace footage looks better on a 9" TV/VCR with screen burn than it does on a 1280x720P display. If you have to make something for LCD, I guess render it progressive.

I'm going to return the LCD and get a 16x9 HD CRT. Unless you are shooting 720P or buying a higher end LCD that can scale SD I just can't see LCD as a good monitor. Just my .02

Now, this monitor would make a great field monitor for the HVX200!

(p.s. The worst part is telling my client, who has this really slick flat-panel HDTV, that the video he paid me to do looks like shit. Since HD wasn't in the budget, and HD delivery is still pretty much M.I.A, there's not much I can do. Well, maybe an external scaler.... that's a thought scale it to the native resolution of the display. Anyone done that? I've got one on my video projector..)

farss wrote on 2/21/2006, 1:21 PM
Most large display devices include an upscaler / de-interlacer. Of course the quality varies from next to useless to very good. On top of that many newer DVD players also include upscaling functions.
Just how well the image upscales depends on the resolution of the original image, so shooting HD for SD delivery makes a lot of sense unless you can afford top shelf SD cameras. This makes even more sense in NTSC land where the downscaling can yield 4:2:2 which looks much better as source for DVD's 4:2:0.
Also noise seems to be a factor that throws off many of the better upscaler / de-interlacers.
Bob.
David Jimerson wrote on 2/21/2006, 2:15 PM
If you shot 60i, making a progressive DVD doesn't matter much.

If it's a 24p project, you can make a 24p DVD with no problem, and the TV will be able to display it as 24p. No need to go to 30p, especially if disc space is at a premium.
Laurence wrote on 2/21/2006, 7:11 PM
60i just gets shown as 60p on the progressive set. It looks even better than 60i so don't worry. Usually there are scalers in the TV, and in some cases in the DVD player. At 23" you'll have trouble seeing the difference though. You need either a bigger screen or better eyes than I have to see the effects of uprezzing. Your 60i footage is going to look fine.
jkrepner wrote on 2/23/2006, 10:05 AM
Hey guys. Well, you are right, 60i was fine. I did some testing and found that the stuff I rendered as 30P, on a DVD player with Progressive scan, looked sharper on some things, but straight 60i (allowing the DVD player to make progressive) yielded overall better results on LCD. On a CRT screen, the project looks great, sharp, bright, has pop. On the LCD: mushy, artifacts, odd colors, blown out whites, no details in shadows.... argh. Makes me want to let a little blood out!

Is this what the future holds? Making programs for LCD screens? I guess once HD catches on (i.e. blu-ray or HDDVD) we can start delivering content in the format native to the display device. ("Hi, I'd like two videos in 720p and one in 1080i. Thanks" This project really makes me think 720P is going to be the popular format of the near future. I'd say that because, most consumers are buying up LCD HDTVs, or plasma, and the smaller LCD screens don't support anything higher than 720P, at least not the ones Joe Six pack will pay for.... anyway. ...

Sorry to ramble....