24pA & 24p Editing Questions

ZippyGaloo wrote on 7/11/2003, 12:40 PM
I'm going to be using the Panasonic AG-DVX100 and Vegas 4.0c for a project. The final project will end up on DVD, MiniDV, VHS and possibly other formats.

I want to utilize the 24p features of this camera and Vegas' ability to edit 24p. I am choosing 24p because I like the look. My question is ....I keep hearing that shooting in 24pA mode equals " a very noticeable and jarring interlace artifact every fifth frame." What exactly does this jarring interlace look like.

Does anyone have some 24pA and Standard 24p footage they can post/show to view/compare?

I also hear that Standard 24p mode is not recommended "if you wish to edit or output in 24p". Why?

Basically I want to utilize 24p (both shooting and edting), have it look nice (no jarring iterlae artifacts) and be able to output to DVD, MiniDV, VHS and other formats.

ONE FINAL REQUEST: Does anyone have footage they can show of a 24p project (either 24pA or Standard 24p) that was edited in Vegas with the 60i template? I want to get a look at the effects and transitions to see if they look vastly different than if edited in 24p.

Comments

PDB wrote on 7/11/2003, 2:14 PM
I recommend you check out the dvx forum and nel forum on dv info.net...loads of advice over there...and the 2-pop forum on dvx too!
24Peter wrote on 7/11/2003, 5:16 PM
There's also a great new DVX 100 forum http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX/YaBB.cgi with a thread dedicated to using the DVX with Vegas http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX/YaBB.cgi?board=Vegas

I have yet to shoot in 24pA though I have checked it out on my TV with the camera hooked up. It's a little "strobier" but not awful. I think the point is shooting and editing in 24pA is more efficient in Vegas (whatever that means) but unless you are going to film, your final render is always 24p normal. Check out the SoFo white paper on the issue. All that being said, I've shot, edited and rendered several 24p normal projects in Vegas with great results. You won't be disappointed and shouldn't stress about it.
ZippyGaloo wrote on 7/11/2003, 8:15 PM
I was more concerned that the transitions and effects would look vastly different from the 24p or 24pA footage if I added/edited either of those in Vegas under a 60i template.

The whole idea (at least what my brain seems to calculate) is that if I shoot 24p, I can then edit in a 24p template (which does the inverse pull down) and all of the transitions and effects that I add will retain the same "look" as my original 24p footage (after the inverse pull down), not a different look caused by 60i. Then after I've added all of my transitions and effects (under the 24p template), they will retain the same look as the 24p footage. Then as the final step I can then re-insert the pull down before final output.

Am I right? Am I wrong? What am I?
RBartlett wrote on 7/12/2003, 11:33 AM
24pA is preferred for import so you might choose it for this reason when you film. 24p-standard will work.

Once on the timeline, whichever way you've imported, your ruler and windows preview is 24p. If you try to preview via DV, expect an additional imposition on Vegas to insert pulldown temporarily. This will be a 24p-standard pulldown to NTSC interleaved video.

Output to DVD in 24p profile will again be 24p, and players that have vanilla TVs for output will gladly again insert the pulldown.

If going to film, the film printer will print 1 cell for each progressive frame and the projector exposes this onto the silver screen twice before moving on.

The only reason you really have to consider pulldown is because the DV file/transfer scheme hasn't got a 24p passthrough mode, it has to tag a header and send it much the same as NTSC interleaved would look like (if you watched the bits and packets/packages).

Film in 24pA, preview in Vegas and consider it 24p. If you get a judder or a telecine look, it is likely to be regular pulldown you are seeing. Just keep on working.
SonyDennis wrote on 7/14/2003, 3:54 PM
Please read the Vegas 24p whitepaper and let me know if you have any unanswed questions after that.

///d@