5.0b DVD Renering bitrates?

Spot|DSE wrote on 6/24/2004, 9:38 PM

Sony is aware of the issue, it's actually a problem with a small change in the way Vegas templates. for the moment, the workaround is currently setting the MPEG properties manually, I think that's working OK, or seems to be for me. I'm sure it will be dealt with very soon.

mbryant wrote on 6/25/2004, 2:12 AM

I’m confused….

I’ve been using the DVD architect template (PAL) with 5.0b and they seem to work fine (create file sizes as I’d expect for the default 6000 kbps VBR). The template defaults to 1 pass, not 2 pass. (I’ve seen other posts that says in 5.0b 2-pass is the default?).

I did however notice that the template “default” (which I don’t normally use) has 4000 kbps as the default. I’m not 100% sure but I thought this was 6000 kbps previously…

Richard, which template were you using? If it was “default”, then maybe it is just a problem with this template (the bit rate is reduced)?

Mark

farss wrote on 6/25/2004, 2:43 AM

I'd never looked there, but might explain something odd, I was wondering how come I could suddenly fit more on a DVD, what cuased the confusion was after the upgrade I've been using 2 pass and I thought oh whoopy doo, now I can fit more on, which didn't really make much sense at all now I think about it. Poop, now I'd better check what I've just done, thankfully I hadn't given it to the client.

MarkFoley wrote on 6/25/2004, 4:51 AM

What? Why has Sony been quiet about this? Sheesh I'm about to deliver a product to a client...What specifically is wrong this time?

mbryant wrote on 6/25/2004, 5:22 AM

It looks like that the default values in the DVD named "default" have been changed. This template has 4000 kbps VBR (6000 max). Also, in the custom video tab, the quality slider is in the middle, rather than on high quality.

If you use DVD NTSC, DVD PAL, DVD Architect templates, etc; the values are the usual normal defaults (6000 ave, 8000 max).

All seems fine to me using these other templates. So either avoid the "default" template, or change the settings manually.

Mark

Spot|DSE wrote on 6/25/2004, 6:41 AM

As I mentioned, changing the settings to something different works fine.

ralford wrote on 6/25/2004, 6:41 AM

Just noticed rendering was misspelled - makes searches difficult :(

I was using a varienty of default and default based templates. It appears the NTSC DVD defaults are for poor results - I noticed the problem on a product I was about to deliver which looked closer to VHS than DVD!

I have modified a template to do 2-pass and to increase the avg bit rate to 8Mb/sec from the default 4 or 6!, and it is creating files of the expected size.

ANOTHER QUESTION: What do the terms "Best" and the "video quality slider" control in Vegas???

Cheers,

Richard

winrockpost wrote on 6/25/2004, 7:07 AM

.........Sony is aware of the issue, it's actually a problem with a small change in the way Vegas templates. for the moment, the workaround is currently setting the MPEG properties manually

thanks Spot for sharing the workaround.
But damn,,, if Sony is aware of the problem why in the world didnt they tell the buyers of their product. Things gettin a little weird.
Oh I do remember Sonic Foundry, what a simple time.

MarkFoley wrote on 6/25/2004, 7:17 AM

Let me re ask my original querry...do we know what specifically Vegas is doing with the default 2 pass template? Although I would love to throw stones at this glitch...but it is my own fault for upgrading while in the middle of a project for a client. Never again....going to wait out a few days/weeks to see what breaks in future releases.....

Still would be nice to have Sony chime in on this problem....

SonyEPM wrote on 6/25/2004, 8:36 AM

We provide precisely configured templates for specific file delivery needs so please use those (and modify if you need to). For instance, if you are delivering on DVD, please pick a DVD template from the list based on what your authoring app requires.

For those of you who have questions about "default" render settings: In almost no case should you use the default render settings, for any file format. The default render settings will pre-stuff various project settings, but we have no idea if (in the case of MPEG-2 for example) you want a broadcast-type MPEG or a DVD MPEG or something else... so we make some assumptions but we can't read your mind. We fill in as much as we can but this may not be what you really need.

Grazie wrote on 6/25/2004, 8:43 AM

SonyEPM . .do you think it would be useful if you gave a "hint" as to what all the diferent templates are used for? You've intmated here what they could be for .. but I for one would be really grateful if you or somebody could explain a bit further. I think we are getting closer and closer to the crucial question, and thaat is who is Vegas and the products really aimed at? Is Sony going to separate the Pros from the "rest" . . I might say I'm amongst the "rest" . .and I think there are a lot of others too .. any thoughts?

Grazie

MarkFoley wrote on 6/25/2004, 8:52 AM

SonyEPM,
Let me get this straight...if you use , lets say the DVD NTSC with two-pass selected, then all is fine with the bit rates set for that template (8M/6M & 192K)?

ralford wrote on 6/28/2004, 6:28 AM

can't answer for Sony, however, the factory settings you mention appear closer to VHS settings on my original renders. Much worse than the factory settings in Vegas 4

Jay Gladwell wrote on 6/28/2004, 7:06 AM

Boy, oh boy, threads like this one really give a fella reason to doubt what he's doing is correct.

Still not feeling 100% up to speed on DVD making, I'd appreciate any clarification that what I'm doing is correct. For example. . .

I'm using V5b and DVDA2. When encoding video in Vegas for DVD I use the "DVD Architect NTSC video stream" template. Is this the correct/best template for what I'm doing? I presume that the "DVD NTSC" template is for applications other than DVDA, correct? Thanks!

Jay

jetdv wrote on 6/28/2004, 7:25 AM

Jay, you can use EITHER template for use with DVDA or any other authoring program. The big difference between the two is the lack of audio in the DVDA template.

apit34356 wrote on 6/28/2004, 7:38 AM

Vegas5 probably should have stated "Please choice one of the following rendering templates or customize", instead of saying " default". If you are rendering to DVDA-2, use the DVDA-2 template for video and then the ACC3 for sound.

farss wrote on 6/28/2004, 8:09 AM

So lets see if I've got this right, the DVD Architect templates provide values such as 8MB/6MB/195K bps VBR no 2 pass. Those ARE the values which the encoder will run at?
I can tick the 2 pass checkbox and have the same settings with 2 pass encoding and all should be well.
Reason I'm asking what might seem like the bleeding obvious is that how this started out, at least the way I read it, was that the NSTC DVDA templates were encoding at 4M bps! Or at one point I was beginning to doubt that the entered values were what was being read by the encoder.
It would be really helpful if those in the know stated specifically what the issue if any was, if any. An enormous amount of confusion could be avoided.
Words like DEFAULT are very arbitary, as far as I'm concerned ALL templates are default, I can still encode for a PAL DVDA mpeg files without using the values in that template, it just supplies a set of values for the bitrate etc which in general will do a decent job, they're still default values!
From memory the DEFAULT (the one labelled that) in V4 caused the thing to crash, that was cool, we all knew about it and no one would use it anyway, after all, default for what! So when someone comes along and says the Default values have been changed it's rather confusing for all concerned, I pity anyone whose just trying to get started.
Could I also add that not everyone who uses Vegas has english as a first language (I do and still get confused by much of what's said here). I see an urgent need for a place where specific known issues get posted in concise english. Surely this has got to be to everyones benefit.

mbryant wrote on 6/29/2004, 7:16 AM

I was worried by the first couple of posts in this thread which seemed to indicate there was a problem with "the templates" and you had to manually change the valiues to workaround.

As far as I can tell, the template I use (PAL DVD-A template) works fine, without any manual changes. You get the values in the template (8MB/6MB/195K bps VBR). The file sizes I get match that bit rate. I tried it for NTSC DVD-A and that seems OK too. Also tried 2 pass; and it took twice as long, and created a file of similar size....

The only thing I noticed was that the template simply named "default" had lower values, so I wondered if that was the problem being reported? I never used this myself, and understand it is not recommended.

Maybe there isn't a problem at all? It is this quote from Spot which is worrying me still. I understand how to manually change the templates, but if they seem fine, then there really isn't a problem?

"Sony is aware of the issue, it's actually a problem with a small change in the way Vegas templates. for the moment, the workaround is currently setting the MPEG properties manually, I think that's working OK, or seems to be for me. I'm sure it will be dealt with very soon".

I think this is what is bothering farss too...

Mark

SonyEPM wrote on 6/29/2004, 7:29 AM

There is no problem. Use the render template for the exact type of file delivery scenario you require and everything will be just fine.

farss wrote on 6/29/2004, 7:46 AM

At last, thank you, I couldn't believe the answer was anything other than that. The only question is where did SPOTs somewhat confusing suggestion come from?

kentwolf wrote on 6/29/2004, 9:34 AM

>>...almost no case should you use the default render settings, for any file format.

Does this mean that for an AVI file the NTSC DV default setting shouldn't be used?

Thank you.

kentwolf wrote on 6/29/2004, 11:01 AM

...bump...

mbryant wrote on 6/30/2004, 6:24 AM

No, this isn't what was meant.

The advice from Sony is to use the template designed for the purpose. In the case of MPEG, there are templates for DVD-A NTSC, DVD-A PAL, etc – use one of these, not the template simply named “default”.

Same for .avi – for NTSC DV, use the NTSC DV template; for PAL DV, the PAL DV template… in general, you would not use the template called “default” (which in this case is uncompressed video.. unless you really want uncompressed video for some reason).

There is no problem with any of these templates.

Mark
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kentwolf wrote on 6/30/2004, 6:59 AM

Thanks!