5D2 MOV files not read correctly by Vegas (?)

LarsHD wrote on 5/13/2010, 11:25 AM
Canon 5D2 footage MOV file to the timeline of Vegas Pro 9.0d (64)

Canon 5D2 footage MOV file to the timeline of Premiere Pro CS5

Canon 5D2 footage MOV file to the timeline of Avid MC 4


In Premier Pro and Avid the 5D2 footage looks like it should. It also looks exactly as the stills taken with 5D2.

But in Vegas the curve is different and brighter/higher levels are being interpreted differently (no, it's not a 0-255 / 16-235 issue).

The problem in Vegas is that the MOV file from the 5D2 seems to be interpreted differently than for instance in PPRO CS5.

The maximum levels are the same as in PPRO, there's no white clipping, but it *looks* brighter.

But it's not a matter that is easily corrected by a slight gamma adjustment. I can sort of tweak it to good looking with the Curves plugin but it still doesn't look as fresh, crisp and natural as in PPRO and Avid.

So I guess my question is: Why is my Canon 5D2 file interpreted differently in Vegas. And *IS* it?

When the curve is more shallow in the higher areas there is less difference between bright levels and this results in a perceived reduction in detail).

Dragging well exposed and properly color balanced 5D2 footage in PPRO CS5 and Vegas and there is a very clear difference. 5D2 footage looks better in PPRO.

I have tried to drop a few other MOV and AVI files etc on the timeline containing bars etc and there it matches OK. It's the H.264 5D2 files that are interpreted different for some reason. Why?

Using Production Assistant to batch convert large numbers of MOV files (5D2 MOV > MXF 50 Mbps) I can't find a way to incorporate Curves in such a batch transfer. And working on an 8-bit level to to this kind of tweaking doesn't feel very attractive either. I'd rather get it right from the start, like in CS5.

Any ideas about 5D2 and how it *looks* in Vegas?

Lars

Comments

CClub wrote on 5/13/2010, 1:59 PM
Lars,
Do you think this has anything to do with the Vegas preview issue noted here in this http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/cineform-software-showcase/477804-vegas9d-firstlight-histogram-difference.htmlDVINFO post[/link]? I know you're not saying that you're using Cineform files, but some people have noted that they see a difference in the preview -- not the output -- within Vegas, and they're just attaching the sRGB to cRGB convertor to the preview monitor alone (as noted later in that post).
FrigidNDEditing wrote on 5/13/2010, 2:14 PM
i believe this issue is also handled by EPIC from DVFilm as well. if you're using 5D2 footage in vegas, you really should just plop the extra few bux and get EPIC to avoid these headaches.

Dave
LarsHD wrote on 5/13/2010, 3:15 PM
Thanks, I'll look into this...
farss wrote on 5/13/2010, 3:25 PM
I suspect the problem may be because the 5/7D does not use Rec709 and Vegas is assuming it does. If that's the case then indeed a simple gamma adjustment using the curves FX will not correct the problem of different primaries.

Also check which version of Quicktime you're running. Versions prior to 7.6 handled vDSLR footage incorrectly.

Bob.
LarsHD wrote on 5/13/2010, 11:51 PM
Bob, I think you're right in regards to the different color principles here. There's something more complex going on than just a tweak of the gamma. When trying to color balance some footage made in a manufacturing plant with lot's of weird lighting I'm simply not able to get this done with the dropper on color correction in Vegas. In PPro CS5 I just used the dropper on the little gray/white text chart I had shot there and it lookes fine. And most of the time footage looks good right away, where in Vegas I *always* feel the need for tweaking (and yes not a 16-235 / 0-255 issue, something else).

If seems like a series of different factors that makes the result look different in Vegas. The fact that I can just drop my H264 file on the time line in PPro CS5 and and see it looking good, perhaps indicates that something needs t be done with Vegas?

In regards to Quicktime it is the same Quicktime I'm using for both CS5 PP and for Vegas.

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The DV forum and the various posts about Vegas and color. It does seem that Vegas isn't entirely straight forward and easy in the dept does it...

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Epic DV: It says on their website that it's onlt for 32 bit... So I never downloaded their trial. Maybe it's a great app, who knows.



Lars