I can't even get that far. I'm running 8c and 8.1 on the same machine and when I try to install a 3rd party plugin for 8.1, most plugins claim that they're already installed... which is true.... for 8c.

I tried Mercalli on an image, it worked for me. Didn't try it on a video. But the plugin loads.

I dont want to be down on sony but it seams strange that some of the new features in vegas 8c are missing in 8.1 .
Also the cineform issue is a total show stopper.

8.1 has been on the burner cooking for a while now so it's not all that much of a surprise (to me anyway) that 8c has the appearance of being more advanced. We'll probably see the advancements evened out in the next version/patch.

Well if anyone sees any updates on these or other plugins please make sure to pass the info on. I, for one, am gonna be stuck in the dark ages with ye ol Vegas 8.0 till I have them working.

- Ray
Some of my stuff on Vimeo
www.undergroundplanet.com

"Also the cineform issue is a total show stopper."

I posted yesterday, on the Cineform message board, that there was a problem and so far there hasn't been a response:

http://www.dvinfo.net//conf/showthread.php?t=129776

Mercalli works fine for me with both 8.0c and 8.1. Lagarith 32 bit doesn't work with 8.1 (just like Cineform), but Lagarith x64 is recognized by 8.1.

jabloom, this is a post from another thread, maybe it will help you as well?

"Well, a couple things. If you are using Cineform with Vegas 8.0c, watch out, the upgrade installs the old CFHD.DLL version 2.8 (Cineform codec) again in your Vegas folder, so unless you rename or delete it, Cineform files will not show any video in Vegas.

Ugh! So the only way to fix if I have already installed the new version is to re-install Cineform codec, right?"

Hope that helps

Dave

Thanks, but Cineform works fine in 8.0c. All you have to do is delete the Sony-installed version 2.8 of Cineform (CFHD.DLL, that's located in the Vegas folder) Vegas Pro 8.1 doesn't even install the old version of Cineform, so that's not the problem. I'll try reinstalling Cineform, but I doubt that it will do anything. Generally, 64 bit software needs 64 bit codecs and plug-ins. According to David Newman of Cineform, Vegas 8.1 will use 32 bit codecs. It does use the 32 bit codecs that come installed with Vegas 8.1. It just doesn't use any 3rd party 32 bit codecs, like Lagarith and Cineform. Lagarith is also available in a 64 bit codec, so that isn't a problem, but Cineform is presently only 32 bit.

I hate to be critical, but this is poor beta testing on SCS's part.

Bad new for Vegas Cineform users. If you click on the link that I posted further up in this thread, you'll now see that David Newman from Cineform has confirmed that 32 bit 3rd party plug-ins and codecs do not work with Vegas 8.1.

Maybe there will be a workaround posted soon. Else, back to 8.0c for me (not so bad).

Maybe I am missing something, but if you are using 8.1, why do you need Cineform for any new projects? I understand the need for past projects that are encoded in that format, but with the improvements in timeline handling and the opening of the performance bottleneck, what am I missing by not using Cineform? Just an honest question.

j razz

How do I make Vegas 8.1 "see" plugins, like Excalibur, VASST utilities, or Magic Bullet Movie Looks HD?

@jrazz,

That's a good question. The main reason for using Cineform is not speed in previewing or rendering, but rather avoiding worsening compression artifacts from continually re-rendering clips with MPEG2 or AVCHD. Cineform provides a visually lossless alternative to working with either uncompressed HD video or using such lossless codecs such as Lagarith, both of which make immense files and tax even a quad core system. You can re-render about 8 or 10 generations of Cineform (not that you'd want to) without seeing much loss in video quality. With MPEG2, two generations of re-rendering beyond the original capture, tends to give "unpolished" results. If you start with an MPEG2-encoded HD file and then edit and add various FX and then re-render it with MPEG2, you aren't going to see to much in the way of compression artifacts. But what if you open the re-rendered file and add some more FX and re-render again? Now you've got a 3rd generation long-GOP file and it isn't going to look as pretty.

Maybe in DV, you can get away with 3 or more re-renders, but HD is more unforgiving. With Cineform, you can add FX in stages if you like. Capture and convert to Cineform --> add image stabilization with After Effects and re-render as Cineform--> edit in Vegas, add color correction and re-render as Cineform again --> add sharpening or transitions in Vegas and do your final render in MPEG2. That's just a rough example.

But you are correct. As PCs get more RAM, bigger hard drives and more cores, the need for compression and re-rendering will diminish for DV and HD work. It will only be important for higher rez formats like 2K & 4K. The need for adding FX in stages will also diminish as the computers speed up.

I'm not sure what you are referring to as "the performance bottleneck"? The x64 version of Vegas allows access to more RAM, but this seems to only be helpful in allowing longer preview renders. As an aside, I've found 8.1 to be incredibly stable, not just for Vegas, but also when compared to other programs like After Effects and Premiere. Vegas 8.1 appears to be as crash-proof as Adobe Photoshop CS3.

j

I think it is sloppy to issue this software and then fall back on the excuse that the plugins and codecs can not be used uyet becasue they are still 32bit. This is Sony once again acting in an unprofessional and impractical manner.

The practical reality is that while the userbase and 3rd party developers are transitioning to the new platform, they will need support for the legacy software. Sony need to get a wrapper written and integrated into the software to get it to seamlessly supporting 32bit plugins. There should also be a seamless system of prioritising the 64bit versions of the plugin as they become available to the host system. The fact is that some of us will have legacy projects that use plugins that will never be transitioned to 64bit, and we will now have to preserve whole machines in order to load them back up on legacy systems.

I would also be interested to know if they have taken the opportunity to revise the plugin API so they can read past and future frames and other useful functions. If they have not they should really hang their heads in shame. With a major shift in architecture forcing major rewrites and probably lots of new documentation on third party developers it would have been an obvious if not essential opportunity to bring it up to a more "pro" level specification.

I'm not aware if it is possible for 32bit codecs to be used on Vista 64, but from what i can gather, if they are installed, 32bit codecs can be used in 32bit applications. Maybe this is again where someone needs to write a wrapper to allow 32 bit codecs to integrate seamlessly until updates are made. Practical workarounds are required before 8.1 with be usable and develop a decent userbase and warrant third party development.

Not only the 3rd party pluggins do not work also Cineform and Cinescore do not work with 8.1 on the same machine with Vista 64. 8.0C so far is fine.
JJK

"I'm not aware if it is possible for 32bit codecs to be used on Vista 64, but from what i can gather, if they are installed, 32bit codecs can be used in 32bit applications."

It is possible to have a 64 bit program use 32 bit codecs. However, it requires much more attention to detail when writing the software code than if a program just accesses 64 bit codecs and plug-ins. The freeware NLE VirtualDub has been available in a 64 bit version for awhile and it only will access 64 bit codecs and other filters. However, Sony has obviously been able to access 32 bit codecs, since 8.1 does access the "built-in" 32 bit codecs fine. None of them are 64 bit, as far as I can tell. It's the 3rd-party plug-ins and codecs that are installed by the user that don't work, like Cineform.

For people who want to continue to use Cineform, they will have to use 8.0c, which is really no big deal for the time being. I suspect that SCS and Cineform will figure out what is wrong at some point.

If anyone wants to experiment with Vegas Pro 8.1 and freeware 64 bit codecs, here's a website that has the whole collection:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/squid_80/

As with any recommendation regarding installing codecs and codec packs, do so at your own risk.

> How do I make Vegas 8.1 "see" plugins, like Excalibur, VASST utilities, or Magic Bullet Movie Looks HD?

I don't know about the other plug-in developers but I was not invited to the 8.1 beta so I was not aware that it installs into a different folder or what the ramifications of 64bit are on scripting. Obviously no testing has taken place with any of the VASST software since 8.1 just came out yesterday. We will start testing and development shortly to see what needs to be done to make our plug-ins compatible but it may be a while before we have 64-bit compatible versions of our software.

~jr

John,

After installing 8.0c and 8.1 on my XP64 machine, 8.0c reads the VASST (and other) plugins fine - 8.1 doesn't read them, even after manually moving them to the 8.1 scripts directory.

HTH

K

jabloom said:

...Mercalli works fine for me with both 8.0c and 8.1...

Anyone know how to get Mercalli to show up in 8.1? That's about the only plugin I use currently.

Cliff Etzel - Solo Video Journalist
bluprojekt | solo video journalism blog

Haven't left b, yet. Anyone have difficulties with NewBlue loading in 8.0c?

> ...8.1 doesn't read them, even after manually moving them to the 8.1 scripts directory.

Thanks Kevin. Just as I feared. I assume they will need to be recompiled for 64-bit. :(

~jr

"I think it is sloppy to issue this software and then fall back on the excuse that the plugins and codecs can not be used yet becasue they are still 32bit. This is Sony once again acting in an unprofessional and impractical manner."

I think you're being hard and unreasonable and I don't agree at all.

You can have a true 32 bit system or you can have a true 64bit system.... but you can't have a true 64 bit system running 32bit bits and pieces.... otherwise it ends up as 32 bits which defeats the entire purpose. It's not Sony's fault that the plugins don't work. They have no control over plugin makers. It's now up to the plugin writers to update their software to 64 bit. Sony has done its part and produced a 64 bit system... so go yell at Cineform to do theirs.

I also think that if you did not expect this then YOU'RE the naive one. The exact same thing happened with drivers for 64 bit OS's.... why would you not see THIS coming??? In fact it's been said for a while now that the existing plugins will most likely not work with Vegas64.

I depend heavily on a lot of plugins as well so 8.1 is more of a toy for me to play with at the moment until the various developers catch up.... and I EXPECTED this to happen. What's more is that it will be interesting to see if these developers follow Sony's example of a FREE 64 bit upgrade..... or will they CHARGE for the new 64 bit plugins. Will I have to buy Mercalli all over again after just purchasing it less than 4 weeks ago???

Either way, I think you should have expected this... and if not... then at the very least you're yelling at the wrong people.