9.0e doesn't smart render my AVCHD

MrFunk wrote on 5/15/2010, 1:21 AM

Thought I was going crazy after I installed 9.0e today and went to render my AVCHD (Sony camera) files to Sony AVCHD and it started actually rendering them. Checked my settings over and over (enable no-recompress was checked), but didn't see anything out of place.

Uninstalled 9.0e, reinstalled 9.0c and it went back to smart rendering the footage.

20 sec vs 5 minutes on a 90 sec clip.

So unless I missed some other setting, this functionality has changed. I haven't tried uninstalling 9.0c and reinstalling 9.0e from scratch, but I may try that to be sure.

Comments

ritsmer wrote on 5/15/2010, 4:21 AM

AVCHD? what AVCHD? :- )

Could you pls. post the data for it (size, high/main profile, Mbps, audio etc etc)
What camera model and settings (FH,FQ etc). Not your TRV-900 I guess.

... then I will try it out here too.

srode wrote on 5/15/2010, 8:41 AM

Same results here - Downloaded 9.0e 32 bit and left 9.0c64 bit on the machine for comparison. Using raw footage from a Sony SR11 with 1920x1080 resolution and matched the properities to the file under file properties, then rendered to AVCHD 1920x1080 60i with no audio on both 9.0e 32 bit and 9.0c 64 bit and the 9.0e32 doesn't smart render it, 9.0c64 does smart render starting immediately. This is using the standard not any custom settings on both - High profile, 29.97 NTSC frame rate, and 16,000,000 bit rate, Entropy coding CABAC . Smart rendering is too important for me to pass up so I'll go back to 9.32 I guess - AVCHD takes much longer to render if it's not going to smart render. Maybe 9.0f will fix it?

xberk wrote on 5/15/2010, 8:41 AM

From 9.0e help. Seems the same as before.
When you render video to any of the following formats, unedited video frames are passed through without recompression (smart rendering):

I have some MXF files that I transcoded from my original AVCHD. They still smart render when rendering to the SONY MXF template in 9.0e as they did in 9.0d.

srode wrote on 5/15/2010, 8:47 AM

so they eliminated the smart render for AVCHD in 9.0e as compared to 9.0c? Why would they do that? I'll post a request for technical support and see what the response is on this one.

On edit - AVCHD is not called out for smart rendering in the 9.0c help file either unless when I installed the 9.0e version it overwote the 64 bit help file because it's shared?

MrFunk wrote on 5/15/2010, 9:04 AM

Oops! You're right, I haven't updated my profile. It's an HDR-CX500V.

Highest quality setting on the cam which is 1920x1080-60i (16mbps), happens with all my clips, large and small (this particular clip is 130MB), rendering to Sony AVC using the AVCHD 1920x1080-60i template (no audio).

Looks like others may have seen the same behavior which is good and bad.

xberk wrote on 5/15/2010, 11:11 AM

I'm confused. Looks like from what can be read in the Vegas help for all versions of V9 that smart render for AVCHD is not supported -- AND YET it did work in 9.0c as reported in this thread and other threads -- but not now in 9.0e ?? Maybe what changed is the rendering template? Can anyone post the template spec in 9.0c that worked?

Rob Franks wrote on 5/15/2010, 1:59 PM

"so they eliminated the smart render for AVCHD in 9.0e as compared to 9.0c?"
I get the same thing... no smart render. I highly doubt they "eliminated" it though.... probably just broke it while fixing some thing else.

Marco. wrote on 5/15/2010, 2:01 PM

I know it worked in some cases and maybe even works in some cases but I think it will be hard to find any official information about Vegas Pro supporting or supported AVCHD smart render ...

Marco

Rob Franks wrote on 5/15/2010, 2:33 PM

"I know it worked in some cases and maybe even works in some cases but I think it will be hard to find any official information about Vegas Pro supporting or supported AVCHD smart render .."

There are lots of things Sony adds (and fixes) that don't get officially reported.

srode wrote on 5/15/2010, 6:52 PM

Xberk, here's what works in 9.0c

Source - Sony SR11 1920x1080 AVCHD
File type - Sony AVC
Template - = AVCHD 1920 x 1080-60i

No custom settings and it doesn't matter if I use 8 or either of the 32 bits, interlatced or progressive under file properties - all smart render fine.

PeterDuke wrote on 5/15/2010, 11:53 PM

Sony AVC
AVCHD 1920x1080-50i (PAL)
m2ts
16mbps

smart renders for me with 9.0c 64bit

I first set the project template to match the source before loading it in.

Rob Franks wrote on 5/16/2010, 4:58 AM

I used to get smart render in 9c as well. In fact I remember putting a problem ticket in because it would take a long time for smart render to kick back in again after it rendered a transition. Sony's response at the time was that they couldn't reproduce the issue.

Rob Franks wrote on 5/16/2010, 5:06 AM

If I do a search on the threads, it appears smart render for avchd was added from version 8 to 9

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=653247

Has some one submitted a ticket on this yet?

srode wrote on 5/16/2010, 6:04 AM

I turned in a request for technical support on the problem yesterday.

Did anyone or can anyone test to see if it works in 9.0D?

rendernow wrote on 5/16/2010, 7:49 AM

srode: that's a negative. I've tried smart rendering Canon HF10 AVCHD 1080-50i clips in 9.0d and 9.0e to Sony AVC and MXF without luck.

Best regards

rendernow

VidMus wrote on 5/16/2010, 7:58 AM

I just did a test and 9.0d doesn't smart render either!

So apparently they killed it with 9.0d instead of 9.0e.

I tried both 32 and 64 bit versions.

Rob Franks wrote on 5/16/2010, 7:15 PM

"I turned in a request for technical support on the problem yesterday. "

Well that's good. Sadly enough though.... I seriously doubt there will be a 9F. We may get stuck this way until version 10.

I'm trying to remember back.... have we ever had a "F" update before?

Sebaz wrote on 5/16/2010, 7:35 PM

This would be a problem if smart-rendering of AVCHD footage would have ever worked reliably in Vegas 9, but it never did. I tried it many times and while it smart-renders a few minutes, eventually it starts rendering, and this on events that have only been trimmed, not effects added or anything else.

Other than the Pixela ImageMixer software that came bundled with my Canon HF100, no other program including Vegas has ever worked 100% for smart-rendering AVCHD, so I don't even bother with Vegas anymore.

Still, if you can make Debugmode Frameserver work and encode to x264 with the right parameters, the final edit will look as good as the original, at least to the human eye.

apit34356 wrote on 5/16/2010, 9:27 PM

Sebaz, "this on events that have only been trimmed"---- I think the problem here maybe GOP alignment. Cutting in/out of the current GOP forces a new GOP to be generated. if project settings match the media, one would think after smartrender created the new GOPs , it would be smooth sailing-

Sebaz wrote on 5/16/2010, 10:35 PM

GOP alignment or not, Pixela Imagemixer only recompresses around cuts, and it can render an hour long timeline in less than ten minutes, and the result is playable without problems. Vegas starts smart-rendering and then it gets to a point where it starts rendering every frame from that point on.

Streamworks Audio wrote on 5/17/2010, 9:24 AM

I can confirm....

I grabbed a AVCHD file from my Sony cam... put it on the time line - rendered out with the AVC encoder preset AVCHD (16mbps, m2ts) and it would 'Render' it.

Restored my PC with an image that has 9.0c installed - did the same test with the same file.... rendered with the same codec/preset..... it would Smart Render it.

I guess it is a bug ;-)

Chris

srode wrote on 5/18/2010, 3:23 PM

Received a response from a person in technical support about this bug yesterday - he wanted to make sure that I have the box checked under preferences that enables no recompress rendering, I responded that I do have that box checked and referred him to this thread after mentioning that others on this forum had experienced the same problems with both 9.0e and 9.0d. Will let you know what I hear next.

srode wrote on 5/19/2010, 3:21 PM

Ok, Here's the bad news for people that use AVCHD regularly, Smart render was removed in 9.0d and 9.0e - here's the response I recieved. Guess I will be sticking with 9.0c unless it's added back in at a later date.

"I spoke with development on this and they were able to confirm that the smart render for AVCHD was removed in versions 9.0d and 9.0e. There were some issues with the many different types of AVCHD H.264 "flavors," making it difficult for the plug in to encode or decode files.

I do not know if this is something that will be added in the future, but we are looking into it. "

MrFunk wrote on 5/19/2010, 3:54 PM

Thanks for the update. I too will stay with 9.0c for now. It seems to be working well for me, though I also use a Sony cam.