The short answer is that DVDs must have MPEG2 files. When you give DVDA a DV AVI file (I presume it is DV), the DV has to be converted.

MPEG2 is more compressed than DV, so that is why it fits.

It is generally better to do your recoding in Vegas first. If you render to a DVD template in Vegas, it will not be recoded in DVDA.

You can insert chapters in Vegas or DVDA.

I used to use Pinnacle Studio, and I never saw any aliasing. I just looked at a DVD I made in 2003 from DV AVI on my 55 inch TV. It looked rather blurry compared to the HD Blu-rays I make these days, and I did see a bit of line twitter with sharp horizontal edges.

EDIT

I just looked with Mediainfo, and noticed that it was made with Top Field First. DV is Bottom Field First. I will have to investigate.

I compared the sharpness of various renders and the ranking, from best to worst was:

1 Original DV AVI
2 Vegas Bottom Field First
3 Pinnacle
4 Vegas Top Field First.

There was only a little difference between 1 and 2 and between 3 and 4.

The difference between 2 and 3 is significant, but not enough to make me redo all the DVDs I have made!

Note that I have PAL DV which uses the same chroma subsampling as MPEG2, namely 4:2:0, so there is no loss there. NTSC DV uses 4:1:1 leading to 4:1:0 when rendered to MPEG2, giving half of the chroma resolution.

Hey Peter,

Yes the AVI is a DV AVI file. If I would have selected "uncompressed" when I rendered, it would have probably been a 70GB file.

"The short answer is that DVDs must have MPEG2 files. When you give DVDA a DV AVI file (I presume it is DV), the DV has to be converted."
-Yes that makes senses. If I want to burn an AVI file I burn it as a Data dvd for archive.

"MPEG2 is more compressed than DV, so that is why it fits."
-But that's my main question: the file I'm introducing into DVDA is not a mpeg2 and is larger than what a single layer dvd can handle. I know it has to be converted into mpeg2 in order to play on a standard dvd player or even BD player-which is what I've recently been re-watching these dvd's. But DVDA is acting like this file is already in mpeg2 format.

"It is generally better to do your recoding in Vegas first. If you render to a DVD template in Vegas, it will not be recoded in DVDA."
-I agree. These dvds were burnt ten years before I had Vegas/DVDA
I also figured that since I should be able to add chapter breaks in DVDA, I wouldn't need to go into Vegas first.

"You can insert chapters in Vegas or DVDA"
-I know it's possible to insert chapters in DVDA, for some reason when I drop the AVI file into the Timeline, the icon to insert chapters will not highlight.

"I used to use Pinnacle Studio, and I never saw any aliasing. I just looked at a DVD I made in 2003 from DV AVI on my 55 inch TV. It looked rather blurry compared to the HD Blu-rays I make these days, and I did see a bit of line twitter with sharp horizontal edges."
-I never did either. They looked great on my Sony Vega tv, and my standard def projector at 133" But when I started playing them in my High Def projector (with a BD player of coarse) is when I noticed the aliasing.

When I used Pinnacle I archived all of my projects. I would rendered the finished project back to a miniDV tape, save a DV AVI file on a hard drive, and of coarse burn a mpeg2 dvd to watch.

Note: last night I watched the new dvd (source being the DV AVI file into DVDA and I did not have the aliasing that is present on the old dvd rendered from Pinnacle.) So I'm glad I archived these projects in a larger size, and my experiment worked. I just want to know the hows and whys.

What exactly do you mean by "aliasing"? Jagged edges to diagonal lines? Mouse teeth?

How does text look? I noticed that while my video was blurry, the text subtitles and menu were sharper. What version of Studio did you use? I used 1 to 9. I did try 12 once, which was after the complete rewrite under Avid control, and noticed that text was blurry along with other things I didn't like.

By aliasing I mean jagged edges on the outline of certain objects.

I used Pinnacle Studio 9.

But still my main question is about the size of the DV AVI file (9GB). Why doesn't DVDA need to "fit to Disc" when burning a dvd5? Why does it say it's already 3,405 MB?

"Why doesn't DVDA need to "fit to Disc" when burning a dvd5? Why does it say it's already 3,405 MB?"

This is purely academic because you should not be trying to author a DVD with an AVI file anyway. However, since you ask, you will see that the column is headed "estimated size". It doesn't say what it is already. In the next column you will see a yellow diamond like a road sign with an exclamation mark within it. That is telling you that there is a problem, in this case that the video will be compressed.

Since the video will fit once compressed using the default settings, you do not need to change them (e.g. press "Fit to disc") to fit the video on the disc.

"This is purely academic because you should not be trying to author a DVD with an AVI file anyway"

-Now that I have Vegas, when I render my project(s), they end up being AVI files (with chapter markers). I then drop that AVI file in DVDA for the menu(s) etc. These files rendered from Vegas are usually way above the dvd5 limit. I've had other AVI files where I had to click "fit to Disc". Maybe they were much larger than 9GB?

Why do you you render to AVI in Vegas?

For best practice, use the following procedure or you will end up with inferior quality or more work for yourself.

Set Vegas properties to PAL/NTSC DV normal/widescreen as appropriate. Edit your video.

Render the video only to MPEG2 using the Main Concept coder and with the appropriate DVD Architect template. DV AVI from cameras is usually Lower (or Bottom or Even) Field First. Click the Custom button on the Main Concept dialog window to make sure that you render to the same field order. (It will be if you have done what I said.) You can check field order and other stuff of a video file using the free Mediainfo utility. The custom dialog window also allows you to set the rendered bit rate. The maximum should be no more than about 8 Mbps for good compatibility with DVD players. If your video is longer than an hour and a bit, you will need to lower the bit rate so that the project will fit on a 4.7 GB disc. If DVD Architect has to rerender (e.g. by using the "fit to disc" feature, you will lose quality.

Render the audio separately to AC3 Pro in a separate file. Choose the same file name stem for each file and keep them in the same folder. Do not rename them.

A sidecar file with the same name as the video file and a .sfl suffix will also be produced. Keep that in the same folder as well. It contains the chapter marker info,

Load the video file into DVD Architect to author your DVD. The audio file will load automatically if it has the same name stem.

Make your DVD. Neither video nor audio will be re-rendered.

Wooh, Hang on. I always assumed (yes a.s.s.u.m.e.) that you render to the largest size possible, then let DVDA do the compression?

I wouldn't want to use the MPEG2 coder if I want to archive the file to a hard drive for a less-compressed version of the rendered file correct?

I do like PCM audio for my dvd's 16b 48k. A lot of stuff I edit is live band concert footage.

Ya I learned the hard way on the .sfl files. I kept deleting them and was wondering why I didn't have any chapter markers in my rendered AVI files.

This was posted after you started this thread - please read it one more time:

Subject: RE: 9GB AVI file doesn't need to shrink for DVD5?
Reply by: videoITguy
Date: 1/17/2015 6:47:17 PM

Most of what you are figuring does not apply to DVDAPro workflows. It might apply to another app like Adobe Encore, but that is another story. Read some of the posts in this forum for background.

I was editing my post when you replied. Make sure that you read it again.

Sorry, but your assumption was wrong - you will always lose quality if DVD Architect has to re-render.

By all means archive to the best quality you can. It may be different to what is demanded by the DVD standard.

PCM takes up more space, so you may need to render your video to a lower bitrate to fit on your disc. That is up to you.

"Most of what you are figuring does not apply to DVDAPro workflows."

-videoITguy; I figured my question(s) were DVDA related since the project I'm working with would be considered post-Vegas as far as workflow goes. (I have a rendered file that needed to be inserted into a menu-based program in order to output to a dvd).

-Pete: yes I guess I do need to learn a lot of authoring and burning. Pinnacle didn't have these field Bottom or Top options as far as I can remember. And you could render and burn all in the same program.

Do you have any guesses as to why the quality of this AVI file looks way better on dvd via DVDA vs. the old dvd rendered and burnt through Pinnacle?

Do you have any guesses as to why the quality of this AVI file looks way better on dvd via DVDA vs. the old dvd rendered and burnt through Pinnacle?

Because Pinnacle Studio converted LFF into UFF unnecessarily. I tried to explain that before, and did some tests to investigate it, remember? There may also be differences in the MPEG2 coders as well, but I have not looked at that.

"Because Pinnacle Studio converted LFF into UFF unnecessarily. I tried to explain that before, and did some tests to investigate it, remember?"

Yes I remember, I didn't know what you meant, and didn't want to take the risk of making you angry by asking more elementary questions I'm sorry.

I thought I knew about video editing.......oh man.

Thank you for your help. I need to read up on Coders, Fields..everything.

Jason

"There may also be differences in the MPEG2 coders as well, but I have not looked at that."

I took an AVCHD clip and rendered it to DV AVI but with UFF. I then rendered it to MPEG2 UFF with 8 Mbps video data rate using both Vegas 13 and Pinnacle Studio 9.

I could see no difference at all between the AVI and the MPEG2 rendered by Vegas, but the Studio render was slightly darker and was lifted up by about one line. It was however equally sharp (or blurred, if you like).

I conclude that the Studio MPEG2 encoder is adequate. The only problem is the change in field order.

I tried a test render with Pinnacle Studio 18, and guess what, the field order reversal bug is still there! I am amazed that this has not been fixed after so many years.

Ok, UFF as apposed to LFF- which Pinnacle renders to normally. I haven't used Pinnacle in a few years. I don't remember any options like that in Studio 9. I'll have to break my old computer out now lol.

The change in Field Order is the cause of my aliasing then?