A thought about Vegas 7

Spheris wrote on 9/17/2006, 9:40 AM
Been watching this a week now and I have to say I'm probably more disappointed with the users than the development team - because of what it says about the users, rather than the developers

sure things aren't there that we hoped for
but a few things are and their important if you take a minute and think about usability rather than shiny toys

edl wasn't cut out entirely (more important to some than others)
aaf support improved
mxf finally made its way in there
multi track import and export capability (not quite direct portability to acid but pretty close considering the alternative)
the bussing system appears to be more extensible than ever and mono stereo/surround fold down appears to finally work as advertised

multiple timecode handling (more important than it looks on first glance)

cinescore compatibily (more important and more usable than rewire or vst improvements for the people that use vegas for what its designed for and not as a DAW)

is it closer to a point update (hard to say..the obvious toys - psp/ipod etc aren't really any concern to the people using it imho - just cuteness for marketing considerations - Look to the UMD Toolkit for any sort of real psp application and bring your wallet with you - those start in the 20k range and go up - be very happy they added it as a "freebie" at all)

the rest of it is debatable but one other thing to note is this. it got the same engine update people were so pleased to get with acid and I think that alone, with the other under the hood additions and improvements does push it in the dot release category. Are they the gee whiz sort of things people should be excited about

I can't say really. People seem to be missing the point alot of the time about what new and improved constitutes. Is it always a new plugin suite or crazy bs feature set that has nothing to do with the issue (rewire etc) or it is hardening and extending the tools it already has to do its job and effectively???


just a side thought

Comments

drbam wrote on 9/17/2006, 12:13 PM
"People seem to be missing the point alot of the time about what new and improved constitutes. "

I find it curious and interesting that you're disappointed with some of us, but I think its fine if you want to defend the V7 release. However, I suggest that you speak for yourself about missing the point. The audio users' criticisms are valid and well established. Vegas started as an AUDIO app (perhaps you forgot). If you don't agree with mine or others' criticisms, then you don't agree, but you seem the be the one "missing the point" with your misguided and misinformed lecture here. If V7's enhancements work for you – great and I'm glad you're happy and are having fun with cinescore. But your comments infer that others may not be capable of determining what their professional needs are and I personally find that kind of BS to be arrogant and offensive – it certainly is disrespectful.

Peace
Spheris wrote on 9/17/2006, 1:29 PM
Bam, thanks for taking a minute to punctuate just the point I was making about the issue.

Off the record, I don't disagree with alot of the feature requests. Some make a lot of sense - in their DAW line, but not so much anymore for their NLE line. Sure they could probably benefit from some of it but there's always a catch

Is there room in both, I can't say - Peter could probably say a lot more to whether it would introduce the kind of feature creep that has broken a lot of other products - avid, pinnacle etc.

personally, I think the new feature slowdown is a good sign.
It means they've got - one: a solid product they're reinforcing for working use - as they're designed for. Two: It's sets an established framework for other products to come from. Cinescore is a good example of that. Not so much acut down version of Vegas as much as a 1.0 of the same sort of innovative idea as acid was and vegas was at the time working off an established base platform and capability that draws from both apps and makes a completely new application to itself

Reaper is another good example of what's happening there, it's got a dedicated feature set, its being refined almost daily if the barrage of updates tells us anything and it's trying it's level best and failing in a lot of cases to make everyone happy. In the end, will those broken features and ideas stay - doubtful. But they'll make a try of it. Vegas was a multitrack audio compositional and editing tool in the beginning - that is true Bam. But the same argument can be made about Acid as a loop compositor. Neither product has stayed static - both have gained considerable advances over time and evolved far beyond what they started as.

The point of the post wasn't to lecture. But to throw a different curve on the continuing cry of the audio users who feel shorted and ignored. There is a DAW available from sony. There is an NLE available from sony. For the people complaining about DAW issues, they're in the wrong forum in my view (and as several Sony forum mods have pointed out the same for Vegas being targeted as their Video NLE) and should be making these primary feature req for ACID 7. Not trying to make Vegas AND Acid one and the same. I think whether it disappoints you and I is beside the issue - because Sony has already made themselves very clear on the issue of which goes where in their Video NLE vs Audio DAW development resources and have for two consecutive release versions so far. Is it right or wrong, I really can't tell you, You can't tell me either.

Would I, like you want to see an all in one app? Oh yes, when it's ready. Until then. Neither you nor I can speed up that process. Only request the features we want and need and make them for the app most likely to benefit from them. People can do whatever they want, including be ignorant in ignoring the obvious, arrogant and take the truth of it or just bitch because there's just something else to be disappointed with. It's everyone choice what they do and bless them for it. But if I can hear your complaints - you can hear an opposing view, right?
ibliss wrote on 9/17/2006, 2:25 PM
I think... I not sure but i think your (Spheris) may have helped me to make the descision not to bother buying the V7 upgrade.

You don't work for Sony do you?
Spheris wrote on 9/17/2006, 2:35 PM
Not sure what to say to you about it bliss, it either fits your needs or doesn't (people have some similar gripes with acids lack of video features they think should be there - personally I'd rather see them get onto fully implementing rewire in acid on a par with its support in protools and end the farce of digi being the only true DAW on the market - if anyone is thinking I'm of a mind their products are perfect) And no, I don't work for madison media.
Geoff_Wood wrote on 9/17/2006, 3:36 PM
What more to the point from my point of view - purely selfish - is that I know an 'love' the way vegas works. There are obvious improvements that other apps have (and have had for some time) that will cause the market to choose these other app rather than Vegas. And then Vegas dies. That's the bottom line.

Keep up (or better still LEAD) or fade into obscurity and/or oblivion.

geoff
Geoff_Wood wrote on 9/17/2006, 3:43 PM
"Vegas was a multitrack audio compositional and editing tool in the beginning - that is true Bam. But the same argument can be made about Acid as a loop compositor. Neither product has stayed static - both have gained considerable advances over time and evolved far beyond what they started as."

Yes, but Vegas has lost focus from how it started, and Acid hasn't fully developed the features that fit the niche that the original core of Vegas users now want. New users will go for the apps that do have the currently required set of features.

The one essential audio upgrade Vegas needed to catch up with the 'state of the art' was folder tracks...

geoff
pwppch wrote on 9/17/2006, 5:35 PM
>>...personally I'd rather see them get onto fully implementing rewire in acid on a par with its support in protools ..<<<<


What in ACID's ReWire implementation is not on par with PTools?

Be specific.

Peter
Spheris wrote on 9/17/2006, 6:47 PM
Peter, it's concerning something I got in feedback after talking to you about that plugin bug I mailed you about last week. will mail what I got back from the vendor tonight
Spectralis wrote on 9/20/2006, 1:33 PM
One thing that Vegas and ACID both lack is a set of professional sounding audio plugins. This has been commented on in the reviews of ACID and I think it needs to be addressed at some point. Even if this means bundling software from other companies. Why not bundle lite versions of the Oxford plugins for example? Include a convolution reverb to compliment the 5.1 audio.

Compared to other audio hosts ACID (and Vegas) are lacking in quality audio plugins.
JoeMess wrote on 9/30/2006, 10:03 AM
Sheris,

I have to add myself to the people who personally buy Vegas as a DAW, but end up using the NLE aspects of it as part of my job. The point that you seem to miss, is that Acid was not even a contender for the type of recording I and many other users do until version 6. Yes, I record live instruments in a studio without loops. (Yep, I'm a dinosaur.) I have hedged on buying Acid 6, because A. I haven't found a decent price, and B. I still get the impression that my recording workflow would need to change substantially. I just ordered Vegas 7 and currently use 5.0. I have minor gripes, but all and all Vegas fills my DAW needs pretty well if only because it allows me to have a really efficient workflow when recording. I think there are a lot of users like me that are not working akin to a DJ and need a non-ACID/Reason style of workflow.

Best regards,

Joe