ACID vs Sound Forge?

tcbetka wrote on 11/22/2008, 7:38 PM
After spending several hours per day over the last two months learning Vegas Pro and the Sony UI style, I finally feel like I am getting to the point that I can be productive with Vegas. While I know it can handle some audio needs, it doesn't seem to have the DAW feature set that I am used to with SONAR. But I find myself behind the curve now in SONAR--I have both version 4 and version 7, but haven't used 7 much at all...and now they are on version 8 already. While certainly older versions are still quite useful and I wouldn't hesitate to break out version 4 if I needed to get some work done quickly, I have been giving some thought to adding more SCS software...like maybe ACID and/or Sound Forge. Trouble is, I'm not really which does what!

Tonight I downloaded the trial version of both ACID and Sound Forge, and have been playing around with them a bit. Having worked with SONAR a fair amount in the past, obviously ACID is more familiar to me. Sound Forge seems to be straightforward to use--but I'm not sure what I'd use it for just yet. So I was wondering whether you folks use Sound Forge, ACID, both...neither...or what? And if you do use them..how? I presume ACID is your basic DAW, but then how do you use Sound Forge?

Finally, how much more functionality does ACID (or Sound Forge, for that matter) bring than, say, the audio editing capabilities of Vegas Pro?

Thanks!

TB

Comments

JohnnyRoy wrote on 11/22/2008, 9:43 PM
Tom, Excellent questions. I use Sound Forge more with Vegas because Sound Forge is a surgical audio tool. It's also a great 2-track mastering environment (although I realize it now supports multi-channel audio). If you need to get down to the sample level of editing, Sound Forge is the ticket. Likewise if you want to do some destructive editing, i.e.,. clean up some audio and save it to use in Vegas, Sounds Forge is great. Quite often I will process my audio in Sound Forge from my Vegas project to clean up any noise. ACID is more of a DAW like SONAR and is a non-destructive music creation tool. It's not really an audio editing tool. There is nothing that ACID can do to audio that Vegas doesn't already do. Sound Forge is the real compliment to Vegas as an NLE. ACID is more for scoring music for your video.

~jr
busterkeaton wrote on 11/22/2008, 9:51 PM
Fine grain-Audio Edits in Sound Forge
Use Acid for Loops to make music
Do the final mix in Vegas.

Sound Forge is when you want to put a single audio file under the microscope. You'll definitely want to check out the Wave Hammer, Noise Reduction and Izoptope mastering tools
Acid was the first software to introduce the idea working with Loops. It's has since been built up to be more a full DAW and you can choose to mix there, but it's primarily about creating loop-based music.
Vegas is a very powerful mixing tool in itself. It's has audio buses and bus to bus routing.
PeterWright wrote on 11/22/2008, 11:38 PM
For me the huge advantage of Acid over Vegas is Midi - I use an occasional drum loop, but now with Kitcore it's good to create original drum tracks with midi.

After completing a video project in Vegas it's a great pleasure to put the video into Acid and compose music which is synched exactly to the action. Midi can also be used to add an impressive range of sound effects.
Grazie wrote on 11/22/2008, 11:54 PM
Y'know Pete . . sometimes I have to really pinch meself and give meself a wake up as to just how terribly accessible and simple the WHOLE SONY Creative suite is. Your SFX Midi option for one, and just the whole way so many MANY tools are at our disposal - and get-at-able too!

Just brill . . . .

So, to get back on track (sorry people!), there is no versus - either one OR the other, it is both. But there are overlaps. And you will find, as I did, very quickly, those overlaps kinda become infuriating as I got to know just what one or other of the SONY suite could then offer.

Believe me, you WILL get there!!! And when it happens . .and when you experience the shackles coming off it is a real "Blue-Sky" moment too . . . There is absolutely NO hope for you . . . you're hooked.

. . but you are amongst great company here . . .well I would say that, wouldn't I?


Cheers,

Grazie
blink3times wrote on 11/23/2008, 4:25 AM
Sorry to throw a monkey wrench into your original question, but you really should download a trial of Adobe Audition and give that a shot. Of course it's yet another interface to have to learn and Adobe does have a rather confusing way of doing things, but AA is probably more of a combination of both Acid and Soundforge and is a FULL daw. It allows you to work in a true multi track environment which in combination with a free AC3 plugin, will allow you to work with AC3 files. Or with a flick of a button will allow you to edit in a 2 track wav environment.

I played with both soundforge and acid a while back and have come to the conclusion that I made the right decision in going with AA
tcbetka wrote on 11/23/2008, 5:29 AM
Wow...thanks for the answers guys. The thing about SONAR is that, even though it's a great DAW, it's less of a tool for scoring video. Sure people use it for that, no doubt. But all you get in SONAR is thumbnail views of the video, for one thing--and there's no ability whatsoever to nudge the video or tweak it a little bit, if need be. In only playing around with ACID Pro for about 30 minutes last night, I still found myself right at home with the interface. I haven't tried to record anything yet though. I really don't do much with MIDI (or haven't yet anyway), so the Vegas DAW capabilities may be all I need though...at least right now. And I still do have both versions of SONAR; and both are quite powerful.

I used Sound Forge for about the same amount of time but really didn't accomplish anything meaningful, so I anticipate it'll take a bit more to come up on that learning curve. But judging from from what you guys have said, it seems as though SF would probably be more useful in my situation. I haven't checked out the Adobe products much, so that will take some time as well. But I am in no hurry though, as I really don't need more than Vegas (and SONAR) offers right now.

Thanks again for the posts.

TB
JJKizak wrote on 11/23/2008, 7:05 AM
IMHO Acid Pro is more oriented toward a musician background while Forge can be used by anyone.
JJK
tcbetka wrote on 11/23/2008, 8:09 AM
Well, I'm not *quite* a musician...I'm a drummer. But that's close enough, maybe. That's why I don't typically use MIDI much--because I just lay down real drums to whatever I need to. But with the loops available these days, there really is no reason a person can't assemble some great tunes...hence I wonder about ACID Pro.

But Sound Forge definitely sounds like something I'll probably end up with, but I need to more thoroughly investigate the various possibilities first.

TB
musicvid10 wrote on 11/23/2008, 8:10 AM
If I want a background music track for a home movie project, I'll create it in Acid -- intuitive, quick, and the only time it sounds bad is when I'm uninspired.

I use the "Open copy in Sound Forge" feature in Vegas a lot to do work on a program audio track, then bring it right back in as a new take -- in this sense, it's not truly destructive because the original and all subsequent takes are still there as files, and can be re-invoked with a click. The other thing I find SF especially useful is mastering tracks for music CDs --it's so straightforward that even a tech-challenged musician can understand it!

I think drummers are real musicians -- that being said, I think people with a live music background will use SF 90%, Acid 10% because they work less with MIDI and loops than home-studio musicians.
ingvarai wrote on 11/23/2008, 11:01 AM
As others already have said, it is not either or - it is both.
Myself I use Vegas, Sound Forge and Cakewalk Sonar. I have not tried Acid.

The way I work - I move back and forth between Vegas and Sonar. I compile the video, import it into Sonar, do the sound tracks and use the video as a reference, then export the sound and import it in Vegas. Sound Forge is used, as someone mentioned, as a surgical tool on certain sound tracks that I use.

This is how I like to work (I am an amateur, this is pure hobby):

1. Record video and sound separately, if possible. For sound I use Roland Edirol.
2. Process the sound in Sound Forge, using a variety of VST plug ins to remove background noise etc.
3. Use Vegas to compile my footages into a reasonable nice movie
4. Import the video into Sonar. Here the real fun starts! I here add my preprocessed sound recordings, align them, and then add music etc. I find this the most fun part of the whole workflow.
5. Export a sound master from Sonar and import it into Vegas.
6. Render the final movie

I often reiterate steps 3..5 several times.
If somebody would comment on this, it is most welcome. I am especially interested in the idea of using a separate sound track all the way to the DVD burner, I have not tried it myself.

ingvarai
farss wrote on 11/23/2008, 1:52 PM
Reading all your comments I'm left wondering why you can't do what you want to do just with Vegas and maybe what you've already got, SOANAR.

I haven't tried this personally but I've seen it done with Vegas and other apps: You can sync another audio app through MIDI TC.
Vegas plays out vision while the other audio app does it's audio thingy.

Of course if you don't need MIDI instruments and don't need sample level audio editing then Vegas does have busses and routing. You don't need to buy SF to get plenty of plugins that do work nicely with Vegas, some of them very funky too.
Where Vegas does fall down is it will not run as a Rewire slave as far as I know and the UAD devices still don't play nicely, if at all, with Vegas. Still there's a few Vegas users doing 100 track mixes for movies. The Vegas UI could be better, folder tracks would make big mixes much easier to wrangle.

Bob.
ingvarai wrote on 11/23/2008, 5:45 PM
farss:
Where Vegas does fall down is it will not run as a Rewire slave as far as I know

What is "Rewire slave"?

The Vegas UI could be better, folder tracks would make big mixes much easier to wrangle.

Agreed! I miss this feature a lot, also the ability to hide tracks.

[Edited]
Ok, I found an article: Rewire explained

ingvarai
busterkeaton wrote on 11/23/2008, 9:15 PM
I think people with a live music background will use SF 90%, Acid 10% because they work less with MIDI and loops than home-studio musicians.

A pretty common use of Acid is for musicians who don't have access to a full band to create full songs. A guitarist may create a rhythm track with drums and bass and then record an original guitar track over that
PeterWright wrote on 11/23/2008, 9:31 PM
> " ... musicians who don't have access to a full band to create full songs.. A guitarist may create a rhythm track with drums and bass and then record an original guitar track over that"

- and, extending that principle, on those occasions when I can't afford a symphony orchestra to play the music I have created, I can play each instrument myself, via the midi keyboard, or by "painting" the notes with the mouse.
tcbetka wrote on 11/24/2008, 5:40 AM
farss said: Reading all your comments I'm left wondering why you can't do what you want to do just with Vegas and maybe what you've already got, SOANAR.


I might be able to do this Bob, in fact... After playing with SF and ACID Pro some more, SONAR will indeed do for me what ACID will do--although ACID's interface is very pleasing to me after spending a couple hundred hours learning Vegas over the past 2-3 months. But I have spent at least that with SONAR over the few years I've owned the application, so it's not an issue. And I believe that SONAR has the same sort of waveform editing tools (as well as V-Vocal, a pitch-correction tool) as Sound Forge. Does Sound Forge have a pitch-correction tool? I didn't see it, if it's there...but I haven't spent a lot of time with the app just yet.

I really like the ACID loops library though. Having never really worked with them, I didn't know how nice they are. But I can easily see myself building a loop library sooner than later; and if I don't need to buy another software application because SONAR will do it all, then I should be able to build a real nice loop library with some of those funds.

TB