I'd say "delivery format" describes the deliverable product: DVD, BetaSP, HDCAM etc. etc.

The "editing format" could be altogether different: Uncompressed QT, AVI or whatever.

EDIT: Jay beat me. Darn!

Acquisition Format; as an animator I generate my own source material in 1080p format. I assume that's what Aquisition would mean although I've never used the phrase.

Editing format in my case is 720p. I render out of my animation application two formats:
the original, uncompressed format 1080p and an uncompressed 720p to edit with in Vegas.

Delivery Format will be 1080p once I'm finished. I will replace all the 720p clips with 1080p and have these scanned to 35 mm film.

Have I passed?

There is no right or wrong to the questions, consider the question a depth gauge. Just curious about nomenclature among users.

So what's your take on it?

I think "acquistion format" predates video, as in 16mm, 35mm.
"Editing Format", never really heard that phrase used and with the use of proxies it could be a bit misleading.
"Delivery Format", same as acquisition format, 35mm, HDCAM etc.

Bob.

acquisition format,, camera type used,, DV,Beta,Dvcpro etc
editing format...?
delivery format,, how its to be delivered dvd, beta sp etc

Well, if you're talking film then you might call the camera original negative an aquisition format and the final print the delivery format.

Editing formats for film are a little more complicated and don't always quite translate to digital media. So, let's say you edit on work prints and then go back can conform the negative based on edge numbers. In the digital realm this would be like editing with a low data-rate capture or proxy and then going back to the original for a final render.

In DV25, the process would be to shoot (aquire) in DV25, edit in Vegas and always render UP (there's the editing format), and then render into a delivery format (or output straight to tape).

Where we're talking about an "editing format" is whatever you standardize your edit on. Say you're using DV25 but all renders are going to be Sony YUV. That's the editing format.

If you compare Premiere and Vegas, Premiere requires you to set a project type and all your effects and transitions get rendered to a conforming format. Vegas doesn't do this. Instead, Vegas just does the best it can to render things to the preview window. So, in a way, Vegas is agnostic about edit formats.

That doesn't mean a Vegas user should be agnostic about it. Vegas leaves you to make decisions about how you'd like to render things like titles, and the DV workflow tends to lead people to make DV renders, even if it's not the best choice. So, to me, it seems worthwhile to at least have the concept of an editing format in mind as you work in Vegas.

Rob Mack

Editing format starts to make more sense when you look at non-vegas systems. Take Media100 of 4 years ago as an example. All media was "digitized" through their I/O card to a conforming media type. M100 worked with that format. You couldn't put mixed media on the timeline.

Similarly, if you capture via SDI, your edit system has to write the data into a file. You could have all sorts of sources feeding into a system over SDI (we have dv25 coming in over SDI here) and all of them will get rewritten in the new file format.

Even Premiere seems to use an editing format. When you make a crossfade, Premiere marks it as needing a render. I don't really know what it renders the file to, but it's something based on your project settings.

One of the telltales of a system that uses an editing format is that it get's very specific about the project type. Yes, Vegas does this in templates, but all the preview renders are in ram. Premiere actally wants to write files to disk based on your project settings.

In Vegas, you're on your own about these things. Want everything rendered as Sony YUV? You have to have the discipline to do it yourself, every time you do a prerender. It's not a bad thing, but it takes a little forethought.

Rob Mack

From the posts here, seems I'm on the same page as most folks.

Acquisition-format used to shoot/generate media.
Editing-Could be same as aquisition, but might be an intermediary or proxy.
Delivery-whatever you might output to, may be the same (or different from) acquisition and/or editing.

I see DV as being all three.
I see HDV as being acquisition, but not a good editing, and not at all a delivery format excepting in Japan, where stations will accept it.

Editing formats that aren't necessarily acquisition might be CineForm, Sheer, Apple Intermediary, Avid DnX, VASST proxies, etc.

Delivery might be DVD, HDCAM, D5, etc. All are different than most acquisition, and some are different than editing. IMO, Vegas is pretty adept at whatever you want to throw at it.

FWIW, the impetus of this impromptu poll was that a magazine writer sent a pretty scathing note that HDV is a format, not an acquisition or editing format vs delivery, etc. I felt, and still feel, differently. IMO, HDV generally is acquired, potentially edited natively, and then delivered either via DVD, BD, HD DVD, HDCAM, or webstream, but not delivered much of anywhere as HDV. It generally becomes something else by the time you're finished.
Thanks for your input.

Well magazine writers are pretty much in the same boat as the rest of us. No special knowledge or higher authority. Their skill is in writing the articles more than knowledge of the topic.

So his position is that HDV is a "format", not an "aquisition format'? I'm sure this is just where he and his audience are at. This distinction of something being an aquisition format hasn't really been bouncing around the vegas forums all that long and he hasn't caught on yet.

Besides, the idea of an aquisition format does kind of complicate things for people who are already overwhelmed. Trying to learn everything you think you should know sometimes seems like trying to sip from a firehose.

(BTW, I was in two record stores in downtown SF last night and ran across your CD at the front of a stack in both places. Nice that it's there, nicer that people can see it so easily. Lucky you.)

Rob Mack

... a magazine writer sent a pretty scathing note that HDV is a format, not an acquisition or editing format vs delivery, etc.

Sounds like something a writer (and I use the term loosely) with the initials (removed) would say.

[edit]
I removed the initials because... just because it wasn't smart. My apologies.

... the idea of an aquisition format does kind of complicate things for people who are already overwhelmed.

If that's true, then I would strongly encourage all those "overwhelmed" folks to get out of video production and look for something else to do. I can't imagine anything being any more basic than the format concept as discussed in this thread.

I was going to quote the old saying:
Those who can do.
Those who can't teach.

To which I'd add "Those who can't do either write about it"

Except I just picked up another Vegas student :)

Bob.

"Acquisition format": the way the thing used to get whatever stores it. IE mini-disc for a mini-disc recorder, WAV for computer, DVCPro, VHS, etc.

"Editing Format": the medium that's used to edit with. IE tape, DV file, mpeg file, VHS, etc.

"Delivery Format": whatever is used to give whom you did what for. DVD, VHS, WAV file, mpeg, DV tape, etc.

From experience, these are words used by the people who don't actually do a job relating to them (the terms) or used to talk to people who don't do the job. I have NEVER used those terms. It's always been "Here's a DVCPro to put on the air" or "Where's the DVCPro for me to edit?" Only clients/other people ask for a "delivery format" or when we'd order tapes, etc. we'd need to specify. But when talking directly with people who delt with whatever medium (audio, video, etc) it was always referred to by format.

AF - could be miniDV, SD, HDV
the physical media or file format used in aquisition

EF - avi, m2t, SD, HDV
format best suited to editing with in your NLE or PC

DF - mpeg2, DVD
file format or physical media used to deliver your final video

To me without looking at any other replies "Editing Format" means the type of file on my Vegas timeline which for me is Cineform avi. My delivery format is either DV on DVD b(DVD format) or HDV on data disk which is usually mpeg2 TS or WMV9

Let me try a different approach to the answer. I am an engineer by training. Therefore, while I think that all the answers so far are correct, I would like to go down one layer below those answers and ask WHY one format is an editing format, and the other a delivery format? Now I am speaking strictly about video and not film. To me, as an engineer, the answer seems pretty obvious:

Editing format = no inter-frame compression (i.e., every frame is compressed without reference to other frames), and the audio is not compressed.

Delivery format = inter-frame compression and compressed audio.

I'll admit that this definition can be confusing since, for instance, HDV captures using a format that uses inter-frame compression, and V7 can now edit this natively. However, as Spot and others will probably agree, if you have any kind of serious editing to do, you will want to convert to Cineform, a true editing format that compresses each frame independently from all other frames.

Finally, to solidify the argument, the whole reason we even have a "delivery format" is that, so far, technology does not let us deliver editing format video on optical discs (not enough space). Therefore, to "deliver" the video, we are willing to compress the video and audio in a one-way scheme that cannot be undone (i.e., you can never recover anything close to the original quality if you want to re-edit).

Anyway, that's the view from an aging engineer's perspective ...

Yes, it ought to be basic. The problem isn't always complexity, sometimes it's just the volume of information and a lack of framework to hang new ideas off of. A teacher friend of mine calls this scaffolding.

Rob

Of course. The terms are more to get an idea across. Once the idea is understood you'd hardly ever need to say it again.

Rob

Yeah, good approach. Basically, the terms define file formats that meet a specific need. Issues are generally size, quality, and editability, and cost.

Rob