Just do a print to tape with Bars and tone to a MiniDV tape and then capture the bars and tone from the MiniDV Tape.

I dumped a 1KHz test tone .wav file and an ntsc colorbars .png here: http://www.vegasusers.com/testbench/files/

Why not print to tape and then copy the bars and tone back into vegas and use that?

I usually just turn the color bars on in my camera and record it. Edits the same as any other footage. Tone I usually skip.
John

Thanks to everyone for your replies!
I figured Vegas had to have a .wav hidden somewhere since it does PTT but no worries now, once again Kelly has come to the rescue; THANKS KELLY!!!!!!!!!!
Randy

Try this again -- my last post seems to have failed.

I'm uninformed and curious.

What sound level is expected for this tone? I assume it isn't 100% of digital max. What should the level be?

Also, normally, how long in time is this test pattern?

Kelly

Was that a .png of the Vegas bars or one you got from somewhere else?

The reason that I ask is that I can't see the far right pluge bar as being the right level. Both the Vegas right hand bar and your .png right hand bar seem more above the center bar in level than the left one is below it which doesn't seem right since they're supposed to be 3.5, 7.5, 11.5. I looked at the Vegas bars once and the right bar was at about 14 IRE I think.

By the way, I just got a broadband connection and am looking forward to downloading some of your files that I haven't been able to view before because they were too big for dial up! I was a little intrigued at what a "Baltique lines example was???"

Regards...

Al

>>What sound level is expected for this tone? I assume it isn't 100% of digital max. What should the level be?<<

That's a good question, I've just always just trusted whatever Vegas generated in the PTT process. For the station I've been sending material in to, they've requested a peak of about - 5db for the audio.

>>Also, normally, how long in time is this test pattern? <<

10 seconds is what this particular station (local NBC) asked for.

Randy

JumboTech: yes, guilty as charged ... that was a "save snapshot" of Vegas' own colorbars. The test tone was recaptured from a Vegas print-to-tape. I never thought to verify the bars; i may have made the mistaken assumption that Vegas would create the .png file correctly.

If i recall correctly the baltique clip was someone seeing interlace lines and wondering what and why they were.

http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=219367 or thereabouts.

Ha Ha. I thought "baltique" was some kind of artsy techno term for shooting a video in a special way. I watched that clip about five times trying to figure out what baltique referred to. Didn't realize it was a person!

Regards...

Al

The old Nagra I used to work with in the dawn of (my) time had a button that sent a 1000 Hz tone at -6 dB to the tape when I pressed it. But whatever level you choose for the test tone - make it known, and there should be no problem. There does not seem to be a standard, and stations have their own various preferences. But if they know that this tone is at -6 or whatever, they'll know how to proceed.
Tor

TorS,
from the little that I know about this I think that's the wrong approach.
I seem to recall that the tone should always be at -20dB, this avoids confusion.
Where the confusion comes from is various systems set 0dB at many different levels. However when your reference is simply -20dB on the tape, they set their gear to read -20 as well. What comes out of their machine could +4 or -10 or whatever, that's just their internal way of doing things. Your program will still end up at the same relative level.

Since everyone here thusfar doesn't seem to have a concrete answer about this, I'll ask my embarrassing question and hopefully someone will know the answer.
If the V4 test tone generates a ...whatever db, let's say -20 db since we don't know, and my audio peaks are -6 db, how does that help the station or anyone else use the test tone as a reference. Same with the color bars, what if you render "non-legal" colors in your video but V4 generates pristine color bars?
TIA,
Randy

In these days of digital transfer it probably doesn't matter much. However, if they're doing an analog transfer then what the station engineer will do is play your test tones and set his meters to match whatever level you say the test tone is. That way he knows he'll get a 1:1 sound level ratio, or in otherwords, the broadcast master he makes will be at the same audio level as the material you supplied. This corrects for any differences in audio levels between the station's equipment and yours. Even in a digital situation it is a good check to make sure your master was created properly.

It's a bit more complicated with the color bars, but the idea is the same. He adjusts your color bars to look correct on his equipment, and then the rest of your video transfers exactly the way you want it to look (or at least exactly the way you created it, which may or may not be the same thing ;) ).

Thanks Kelly,
I do understand the concept, to use both as a reference but please re-read my post; it refers to the test pattern/tone relating to the material.
Thanks again Kelly,
Randy

Randy, yep. That's why i said the part about the 1:1 ratio. It ensures the station gets whatever you send at the same level you sent it. If you created your material with -6dB peaks then the test tone ensures that the station's copy will also have -6dB peaks.

>>If you created your material with -6dB peaks then the test tone ensures that the station's copy will also have -6dB peaks.<<

If one can set their test tone to -6db, right? I wonder if someone from Sony could tell us what db is being generated by the PTT.

Thanks Kelly,
Randy

It doesn't really matter what level the test tone is. If you put a -20dB test tone on your material and tell the station it's -20dB, then they'll set their level to match that. Then whenever there is a -6dB peak in your material they will get a -6dB peak ... because they have matched your signal level. There is no need for the test tone level to have any particular relationship to your material whatsoever. It's simply a reference level and as long as you tell the station what level it is, that's all that matters. If you give them a -3.432dB reference tone, tell them it's -3.432dB, and then have -13.583dB peaks in your material, they will get your material transferred with -13.583dB peaks.

In other words, you're thinking too hard. ;)

The test tone that Vegas prints to tape is -20dB.

My (Army) shop, and every other one I've worked in, always sets tone to 0db. The stuff we shoot / edit ends up on the History Channel, PBS, CMT, CNN, FOX News, CSPAN.. the list goes on, and we have never had a problem. When a station or post house / dub facility gets your master, they check it, and adjust their levels (video and audio) to those of your bars and tone.
The biggest problem that we've run into is when we get tapes from people who put their BnT's on tapes either prior to dumping the finished product on, or as an afterthought. More often then not, this leads to levels in the project that are not related in anyway shape or form to the reference set by the BnT's. The whole point of having bars and tone is to provide a refernce. If your tone is set at 0db, but your project audio peaks at -20, when the tech sets the levels prior to air, the levels will too low. This also works the other way if your tone is at -20, but you peak your audio at 0db, your program audio will be overmodulated. Will the tech notice and compinsate? Maybe yes, maybe not. Depends on the time they have and how much they really care about how your product looks. If it's a commercial, chanes are they'll base it off your bars and tone and call it good. Bad levels in a comercial reflect on the producer, not the station. Something long form reflects their station more, and will recieve more attention.

Okay, from the last two posts I will assume that if my audio peaks are set to -20db and then PTT using BnT's I'm safe.
Now to be safe with DVD, I will make sure that the tone that I put on the timeline (which I'll put below my bars) is graphically reading -20db and make sure my peaks are around -20 also.Thanks guys,
Randy

Whoa,
the reference tone is set to -20 because you have 20dB headroom. Unless you want your program to be aweful quiet you still should have your peaks as metered in Vegas just under the 0 mark..