Advanced Design of Kentucky: Consumer Alert

blindner wrote on 3/25/2003, 6:59 PM
Before you purchase a video or audio workstation from Advance Design of Kentucky (ADK), you should review my incredibly disappointing experience with them… see my letter to their president Scott Chicelli (below) and supporting documentation at http://www.marthaandbruce.com/ADK/ADKDemandLetter.htm. Learn from my mistakes in choosing these guys, I paid them $3,701 to build what should have been a state-of-the art DAW, and it really sucks to be me right now… any ideas would be appreciated. -Bruce

March 25, 2003

Advanced Design of Kentucky
5736 Limaburg Rd.
Burlington, KY 41005
Attn: Scott Chichelli, President
jcskid@advanceddesignky.com
www.advanceddesignky.com

Dear Mr. Chichelli,

I purchased a PC Digital Audio Workstation built by Advanced Design of Kentucky (“ADK”) on 10-07-02 for $3,038 along with additional hardware installed by ADK on 01-09-03 for $663. The total for the PC and hardware is $3,701; receipts are attached.

Since I received the PC, there has been a continuous list of problems that make the PC useless for its intended purpose of recording digital audio. The problems include: frequent ‘blue screens of death’, PC refuses to ‘boot up,’ memory errors, BIOS problems, the audio program (‘Sonar’) sudden closes in the middle of recording for no apparent reason and 2 (two) consecutive failures to package the PC properly for shipping to me resulting in broken hardware upon receipt. These along with other issues are documented in the letters and pictures I’ve previously sent to you dated 11-19-02, 11-24-02, 1-3-03, 1-15-03 and 03-22-03 (attached).

Since I originally received the PC from ADK, I have sent the PC back to ADK twice, at your request and my expense, to correct the problems. Additionally, the audio program (‘Sonar’), the audio interface (a MOTU MKIII) and related programs were sent to ADK, installed by ADK and ‘tested’ by ADK.

On 03-25-03, I called you to discuss the 03-22-03 letter I sent you documenting the latest occurrences of ‘blue screens of death,’ Sonar randomly closing in the middle of recording, and, in general, ADK’s failure to resolve the ongoing issues and deliver a functioning PC (attached).

When I stated I did not want to return my PC to ADK for a 3rd (third) time for repairs and would like onsite service to fix the problems, you insisted that I do no not have onsite service. On 10-7-02, before I purchased the PC, you and I discussed that ADK offers onsite service and 24/7 support. As such, I purchased a 3 year onsite service and 24/7 support contract from ADK (for $105); this is documented on the attached receipt. You now claim I am not entitled to onsite service since the company you work with has gone out of business and ADK no longer offers this. I stated that since ADK has failed to deliver a working PC despite several attempts, and since ADK will not honor the 3 year onsite service and 24/7 service I purchased, I would like to return the PC for a full refund. Our conversation ended when you hung up on me.

Please contact me with instructions on returning the defective PC to ADK in exchange for a full refund of $3,701, credited to my VISA card, on or before March 28, 2003. I will pay for insured shipping costs. If I don't receive instructions by that date, I'll promptly file this case in court in Burlington, KY

You may reach me during the day at 203 926-5643 or in the evenings until 8:30 p.m. at 203 271-9053 to discuss.

Sincerely,
Bruce Lindner

Comments

wcoxe1 wrote on 3/25/2003, 7:52 PM
Inform your Visa company that what you received was NOT what was ordered. Simply that. If they ask for details, tell them what you ordered in detail but that you never received it. Then demand a refund INCLUDING your expenses to ship back the incorrect item. Include in your complaint a demand for a refund of all shipping and other expenses you have paid trying to get what you actually ordered.

They will block payment until you receive satisfaction. I have done it several times, always getting what I wanted, which by that time was always a refund. On numerous occasions, if the problems were bad enough with the company, they would actually abandon both the item delivered rather than pay the shipping back, and the attempt to collect. Not that the bad item did me any good, but at least they wouldn't foist it off on somebody else.

Stick to your guns. Do NOT delay on the letter (It must be in writing) to Visa. There is a time limit.
craftech wrote on 3/25/2003, 8:48 PM
I was expecting to find a bad reseller rating here:
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1961.html
That is not the case which really surprises me because Resellerratings.com is a resource I use before I buy from any vendor I am unfamiliar with.
I can't believe you bought anything from them after reading their "policies":

Advanced Design Policy & Terms:

Please read, by ordering from Advanced Design of Kentucky you are agreeing
to the following!

1. Warranty:

Extended product replacement warranties are available for up to 3 yrs. at the time of purchase.
Extended computer warranties on computers are available for up to 3 yrs. at the time of purchase. Already shipped computers warranty extensions are available for an additional fee.
All OEM products carry a one year warranty through ADK unless otherwise stated.
ALL Harddrive's are RMA'ed direct to manufacturer unless in a system built by us.
OEM CPU's carry a 1 yr warranty, unless otherwise stated. Retail Box is 3 year thru manufacturer, unless in a system built by us.
The removal of any lot numbers, stickers, or tags on any product ABSOLUTELY voids the warranty!
ANY marking on a product with marker or other staining substance voids the warranty!
Many warranties are through the manufacturer either from the date of purchase or after the first year, and most retail boxed products are through the manufacturer from date of purchase.
Some retail products we will take in for RMA at our disgression
Computers sold with an onsite warranty have now been changed to Express pick-up.

Barebones computer's (no OS) carry 1 yr parts, Oem CPU is 1Yr, Retail Box is 3yr thru manufacturer.
Warranty/RMA shipping on Computer's sold! We expect a certain level of ability to replace parts. you pay shipping to us we pay return shipping. Replacing a bad power supply, harddrive, floppy, CD-RW, etc does NOT constitute a need for shipping the entire system back for repair. If you do not feel comforatable replacing parts, we will at our discretion pay a local computer store "x" amount for part replacement. We charge $40 an hour labor if you take it to a store that charges $90 an hour we will not pay the differance. Most items we can talk you thru replacement.Should a System need to be returned to us for repair, shipping both ways are paid by the customer unless you bought an Express warranty, in which case shipping both ways are paid by us.
DAMAGE IN SHIPPING:
Products damaged in shipping must be reported to us with-in 48 hours. All shipping carriers have a very strict time limit.
Damages not reported to us after 14 days will in no way be paid for by us or the carrier.
Damaged products reported to us in the proper time frame will be picked up and repaired/replaced by us, with no cost to you.

2. Return Policy for Defective Items / Obtaining an RMA
Please provide us with the following information so that we may provide you with an RMA number:

1. The exact product you are needing replaced.
2. Name the product was ordered under.
3. *Exactly* what is wrong with the product (please don't just tell us it is "bad")
4. Invoice number and date
We offer two services for replacing a defective product.
Please let us know which method you want to use when you call

1. Advanced Replacement:

Call us with a Visa, MasterCard, Discover, or AmEx number and we will send out a replacement to you immediately (based on it being in stock).
We may charge your card for the current value of the replacement part. You then have 15 days from the day we ship out your replacement product to get the defective product back to us.
If we receive the product within 15 days, we will reverse the entire charge.
If, within 15 days, we have not received the defective product, your card will be charged for the amount of the new unit, plus its shipping.
If we receive the defective product after 15 days, we will reverse the charge of the replacement product, but shipping and a 15% restock fee will apply based on the current market value of the product.
Some products (older or high end) may not be cross shipped, and may require us to ship back to vendor for replacement(2-4 weeks).
2. Standard Replacement:
Call for an RMA number.
Then send back the defective product, insured, to the address we provide.
Once we receive the part We will then ship out the replacement product,and then we dont need to charge on your credit card.
Regardless of which method you use to replace a defective product, the following applies:

DEFECTIVE ITEMS ARE FOR EXCHANGE ONLY FOR AN IDENTICAL ITEM.
NO REFUNDS NOR ANY OTHER ITEM MAY BE SUBSTITUTED WITHOUT A RESTOCKING FEE!
We may at our disgression allow trade ups.
All items sent back require an RMA Number and this number must be placed visibly on the outside of box you send the product back in or it will be refused by our receiving department.
All RMA's are for exchange of the product ONLY, ALL the accessories must be returned (i.e. if your motherboard is bad, send us back the motherboard, drivers, cables, and original box).
All products sent back to us must be sent prepaid freight and insured against loss or damage.
You must package a product properly or it will void the warranty and no refund or replacement will be given.
If a product arrives damaged no refund or replacement will be given and you must take up the damage claim with the courier you shipped it with, that is why you must insure it.
Proper packaging includes the item sealed in a static bag, not in direct contact with peanuts or other substances, and with at least 2 inches of bubble wrap completely surrounding the item, with peanuts or other shock-absorbing substance filling the remainder of the box.
All products sent back as defective will be tested by our technician.
All products that are found to be in complete working order will be subject to a $10 tech-bench fee plus a reimbursement to ADK for its shipping costs of shipping a replacement product.
This total fee may, but usually does not, exceed $20. We are forced to do this due to the extremely high rate of products being returned that are not defective (over 60% in 1999!).
So please, be sure your product really is defective.
This may include pre-tested processors, decided on an individual basis.
Please make sure the RMA # is on the outside of the box or your package(s) will be refused.

All RMA's are to be sent to: Advanced Design
RMA # xxxxx
5736 Limaburg Rd
Burlington KY 41005
3. Credit Policy:

If you want to send a product back for any reason for credit, you must do so within 30 days from the date of invoice.
We must have all original documentation, disks, boxes, etc., and everything must still be in original condition it was received in!
We will then issue you a credit on your credit card;
(or company check if you do not have a credit card) or company credit.
Please note that your credit is based on current market value (NOT NECESSARILY WHAT YOU PAID FOR THE PRODUCT AT THE TIME YOU BOUGHT IT) of the returned product at the time we receive it.
If you want a complete refund, there will be a 15% restocking fee on the current market value.
If you want company credit to be used however & whenever you want, there will be a 5% restocking fee on the current market value, plus the shipping cost.
There are no refunds on products damaged by the customer or any user with relationship to the customer.
Any product received that is physically damaged must be reported to ADK within 48 hours of receipt, either via e-mail or by phone.
Please allow up to two weeks after we receive the product for a refund to appear on your credit card.
Special order Parts,High end parts will only be accepted back for credit with the relization that credit will only be given after the parts are sold, and at the fair market value we get for them. This includes but not limited to: all SCSI parts, Video cards over $300,Xeon Pprocessors and Motherboards, out of date products.
(3 B) Cancelled orders/Refunds:
Cancellation of an online or phone order may result in a 3.5% cancellation fee.
Your Credit card is billed IMMEDIATELY for online orders, in many cases phone orders are billed immediately if shipping that day or the next is iminent.
You may request via phone order not to be charged until it ships.
3C) SYSTEMS:Your Credit Card will be billed immediately for system orders. If we ship it and you want a refund there will be a minimum 20% restock to as much as 30% restock charge, based on product value the day we get it back NOT nessesarily what you paid for it, assembly fees are NOT refundable and a dis-assembly fee WILL apply. If special order parts, then the parts will be sold prior to any credit given for those special parts. Cancellation of a not shipped computer will result in a minimum of 5% restock fee up to 25% restock and disassemble fee depending on where we are in your assembly. Again if special order/Retail Box items are in the system, credit for those items will be given once sold.
If for some reason we are unable to ship a product in a timely fashion and it did not say low or no stock on the web site there will not be a fee charged.
Should we decide to do A "Pre-Order" basis eg. Up and coming new release of a product, we reserve the right to bill card in advance, the biggest reason for this is the number of people who will order a new release from several vendors and then when we ship the card we get it returned back to us with a "I got it elsewhere and don't need it" this costs us money and time and a problem with Visa for numerous returns.
By ordering from ADK over the phone or by our online catalog or in person or via e-mail, you are agreeing to and accepting all of these terms.*******


You are going to have to try the State Attorny General's Office. Forget the credit card company. It was too long ago. Your card was charged when you placed the order. Find out what the maximum dollar value allowed in the local small claims court is. That's free, but it may be too far away from you.
Cheno wrote on 3/25/2003, 10:36 PM
this brings back haunting memories of UPS putting a forklift through the side of a computer I was returning to B&H a few years ago... stay with it but most likely it's not over soon.

best luck,

mike
Spot|DSE wrote on 3/26/2003, 12:05 AM
I've been owed more than 2500.00 from Digibid since November 12, 2002. They sold a Tascam MX 2424 for me, took 500.00 commission from the sale, and after 5 months of my constant threatening, begging, cajoling, etc, I went to the State of Connecticut. Finally got a response.
Their response? "We're having economic difficulties, but we'll pay you by October of 2003."
Not that these forums are the place for the whining, but we are indeed a community, and friends warn other friends of dangerous curves ahead. Watch out for Digibid too.
TorS wrote on 3/26/2003, 1:22 AM
When you go for the lowest prices you often get the lowest of everything. Including the lowest low-cost client complaint ignoration.

An old Norwegian saying: "Being poor is expensive".

It's a good thing you put out warnings in these matters, because there's a blood-sucker born every minute.

Tor