AG-DX100 in PAL

farss wrote on 10/2/2003, 3:12 AM
Anyone using the PAL version of tis camera, in particular with VV?

I'm particulalry interested in how I could handle going from 25p to film. From what I can workout from some research it may be better to use the NTSC version and shoot 24p Advanced if the final target is to kine to film. Going down that path however kind of renders the camera useless apart from for film transfer as I live in PAL land.

Anyone with any experience doing this? Apart from this issue this is certainly one very nice camera. Had a good play with one at IBC fitted with focus follow gear. Very nice kit at an afforable price.

Comments

PDB wrote on 10/2/2003, 4:12 AM
farss,

I have the PAL version, but can't see me putting anything to film in the very near future (maybe in my next life....)

The general advice is that if you are in PAL land, buy PAL. The 24p advanced is only a pulldown issue applicable to NTSC, all the other settings in advanced are available in the PAL version (like the fine detail setting etc...)

The only difference if going to film is converting 25p to 24p which is an accepted procedure and can be done no probs in Vegas, and reducing the playback of audio (which can also be done in Vegas). The good thing about PAL is that you do have a higher vertical (?) resolution.

Hope that helps! if not, check the 2-pop forum or the dvinfo.net forum, or the dvxuser.com for more pro help.

Regards

Paul.
farss wrote on 10/2/2003, 5:50 AM
Thanks for the info Paul.
i guess the main thing I'm worried about is the 25 to 24 fps conversion when (and if!) going to film. After I'd made the post the other issue of vertical res did spring to mind. I guess that's something we tend to overlook living in PAL land.

The advantage of 24p A, from what i can deduce is that the reverse telecine process can convert back to a genuine set of frames at 24 fps. Shooting at 24p with standard 2:3 pull down means a slight quality loss. No real issue in the PAL world I know but I'd like to know just what the implications are of going from 25p to 24 fps for film are.

I probably need to do some more research to find out just how its done and what if any issues that involves.
PDB wrote on 10/2/2003, 6:33 AM
Please don't take my word from it, but from my reading, the conversion from 25p to 24p involves only a decreased playback rate of 4%: ie, there should be no quality loss issue, but the "action" is 4% slower on playback than the original-which takes you to having to slow down audio to adjust..

Not sure how this works in Vegas (haven0t tried it yet...) and I wonder if a script could automise the whole process - if at all needed that is...

I'm am actually very curious too about the 25p-24p thing, since I believe many/most modern dvd players will play back a progressive dvd onto an interlaced display (as in a lot of hollywood released dvds) which might make DVX Pal produced progressive stuff quite a treat to watch...

I forget to say there is also a Dvx forum over at the COW too where Noa Gardner is a moderator and he seems very knowledgeable about the 24/25p "things"...

Regards,

P.
RBartlett wrote on 10/2/2003, 10:22 AM
Some NTSC folks do and have been using PAL rated progressive cameras for years. Even when a good percentage of their target is going to be 24p NTSC viewed through that so-called "filmic" pulldown scheme.

I agree there should be an import option for 24p NTSC projects where they are bringing in 25p PAL, a bit like the 24pA mode for the NTSC version of the AG-DVX100.

Formal general DVD-Video support for 25p PAL DVDs is a bit quirky (>£1000 videophile UK decks seem to sport this mode but the media is where?), but the results of 25p footage on discs headed up as being 50i is generally accepted as being the same on either interlaced TV or progressive capable DVD+TV. ie Many live programs switch to progressive cameras when they have some band on stage, and we all see this as true whether interlaced or progressive on our TVs.

The most you'll miss out on with the AG-DVX100E is the extra vertical resolution from your sources if you target 24p NTSC DVD-Video.

The 4% stretch out and pitch conversion isn't a big job but a script would be very nice to call upon. Us PAL folk have only just started to see pulldown and always hope that Hollywood don't rescale/crop NTSC into the PAL frame size.
farss wrote on 10/3/2003, 2:56 AM
I did a little more research on this and found a mob in the US that do tape to film printing. It seems they can (somehow) print from 25p video from a PAL DX100 to 35mm film at 24 fps no problem. They have some trick for doing a speed conversion from what i can gather.

They do however ask that you supply the audio on a separate CD. I might shoot an email off to them to just varify that this process works as it should.

One nice thing they also will do is run your credits directly from an image file rather than off the video. That way its not such a dead giveaway that you shot th thing on DV.

Still not a cheap option, USD 350 per minute for a neg and one print.