Analog Audio - BAD sync

tadpole wrote on 6/4/2004, 1:26 PM
Hey Guys,
Figured i was going to run into this problem... so guess i deserve it, but hoping there is a solution out there :)

Wedding ceremony - Church mics the groom and has an audio guy to mix
all the mics together. I give him a cassette tape and ask him to record the wedding from his output.

Well... i captured the tape into a 48K 16bit wav file (via analog player pluginto mic input on my system)

Needless to say... trying to align that audio track up with the audio track from my cam footage... can't sync it - well i can, like get the start of the procession music to sync.. but like 10 seconds in it falls apart.

Is there any audio software out there.. that can like 'strech'/'shrink' the analog record wav to align with audio track from my cam?

Would think "they" would have this somewhere out there?
Thanks


Comments

Chienworks wrote on 6/4/2004, 1:30 PM
Yes. It's called Vegas.

Assuming that the audio is running a constant speed, just too fast or too slow, you can Ctrl-drag the end of the audio event to the left to speed it up or to the right to slow it down. Right-mouse-button click on the audio event, choose properties, and set the mode to "change speed and pitch" for the best sound.

If the speed varies then you can split the event as many times as necessary and stretch/squish each piece separately.
Jsnkc wrote on 6/4/2004, 1:34 PM
48K 16bit
Not sure if it matters, but you might want to try a 44.1 instead of 48
dvdude wrote on 6/4/2004, 1:44 PM
I think the big problem here is that matching the speed of the recorder to the speed of the player is, well, unlikely!!

The suggestions already posted should get you there, but are likely to change the pitch. If it's only a little, it might pass but you probaby don't want the bride to sound like Hulk Hogan. I'd use a deck with a pitch control to get me as close as I can, then tidy it up digitally.
Spot|DSE wrote on 6/4/2004, 4:22 PM
DVDude, Vegas can rubber stretch the audio without touching pitch. It will artifact at about 10% stretch, but it's great for this. Used for shrinking PAL 25fps to NTSC 24 fps all the time.
Tadpole, NEVER use cassette for audio to be locked to anything. Cassettes have wow and flutter, and can never, ever be relied on to be in sync with anything. Use MD, DAT, digital cam, MP3 recorder, wristwatch recorder, Olympus notes recorder, anything that is digital, and you can sync.
farss wrote on 6/4/2004, 4:45 PM
Hopefully you've also got camera audio as well and hopefully it's similar to what ended up on the cassette in which case matching the two audio tracks will be much easier than trying to match A/V.
Chienworks wrote on 6/4/2004, 7:54 PM
dvdude, yes, the pitch will change, and yes, you do actually want it to! The truth is, if the cassette playback speed is different from the record speed, then the playback pitch is different by the same amount too. So, by rubberbanding the audio to sync with the video (assuming of course that the DV camera is running at the right speed), you will be restoring the original pitch. And that's what you want, isn't it?

Also, the sample rate has just about nothing to do with this problem. Vegas auto-resamples on the fly.
tadpole wrote on 6/5/2004, 12:42 AM
WEDDING VIDEOGRAPHY rule #1

DO not follow church rules.

Rules #2

NEVER trust the church audio guy.
(4th time i put my 'faith' in church audio system, 4th time it has failed)

Block the view of the big fat chick sitting in the 2nd row... SHE'll get over it...
she might *itch all the way to the reception.. but THATS IT... it is forgoten the next day.......... MY VIDEO WILL LAST FOREVER.....

I got ok audio with a massive audio envelope that looks like a cracked out rollercoaster... and yes i am drunk.
thank for your input though guys..

NEXT time my wireless goes on groom... i stand on Altar if need be to get my shot...

Vegas video is my lord and savoir.....


omg.. i am going to H E double toothpicks lol

cheers
Chienworks wrote on 6/5/2004, 4:05 AM
HEY!!!!!!!!!!!! ... i AM the church audio guy! :p

That being said, i can certainly relate. I've been asked to video weddings at other churches and usually i'll quietly set up my own audio system instead of tapping into theirs. When other folks come to our church to video weddings i usually go out of my way to give them the best feed i can.
RalphM wrote on 6/5/2004, 6:38 AM
I'm one of the church audio guys too....

Bottom line, don't expect to show up an hour before the wedding and get the full attention from the church audio guy. Often the church audio duties are spread among many volunteers, some of which just know when to push the mute buttons.

Some "videographers" want to reconfigure the mixer, but of course they either can't remember how it was set up or don't bother to put it back. Remember, the church spent upwards of $50K installing and configuring their sound system (if they are serious about good sound), so asking for something they don't regularly provide can be met with reluctance.

Best bet is to do your own sound, and because some churches are touchy about foreign wireless transmitters potentially being on the same frequencies as theirs, its a good idea to consider minidisc or other ways to wire the participants.

MichaelS wrote on 6/5/2004, 6:53 AM
Yep..

You've got a mess...and no matter who makes it, it's got to be cleaned up. Vegas does a great job of stretching audio. It's perfect for this application. But, you'll probably find that you can't simply start your audio clip at at sync point and stretch it to an ending sync point. I have found, depending on the cassette, that you may have to "chop" it up with cuts into 5 minute or less segments, then deal with making fine adjustments to each clip. This is made easier if you have audio attached to the video to compare wave forms, but a real pain when the camera has no audio. Also, remember to take into account any audio delay from the pulpit to your camera when aligning waveforms. There will be a slight delay in the audio to your camera, but virtually none from the church's wireless mics into the cassette.

Been there...wanna buy a T-shirt...cheap...
pking36330 wrote on 6/5/2004, 7:51 AM
OK, so if I'm not going to use the church's sound system, you mentioned to use minidisc as an alternative. I just searched this morning for a portable minidisc recorder and couldn't find one.

What reasonably priced portable audio recording gear is everyone using?(reasonable priced = >$300)
tadpole wrote on 6/5/2004, 11:36 AM
well my apologizes to those GOOD church audio guys out there... lol

i just sorta of have bad luck... maybe its my blasphemy?

But,, ya i do show up at the rehearsal to check sound etc.. (btw.. where is the sound guy there? huh? what.. u got something better to do on a friday night? jk)

Thing i like to do.. which is simply.. is politely ask to simply plug in a cable to the headphones out jack on there setup (if they monitor with headphones, i have splitter)... usually works well (no messing with any of their knobs)... that is if they allow me to plug it in...

I have eyeballed the sound rack at churchs before from 10 feet back and have fathers give me the EYE and are like 'DONT even think about it"..

Anyways - YES pking...

WHERE are our portable digital audio recorders under $200-300!!
Bah to mini disc.. i hate that.. they're pretty much giving away 256meg flash mp3 players in cereal boxes these days... is it so much to ask for "them" to add recording and line-in capabilities?

Yes, i have seen something like this.. RIDICULOUSLY priced
Some other $300- digital players/recorders do offer recording...
but its like only through built in krap mic.. or 8hz 4 bit sound

SONY????? come on u big gorrilla.. make me my compact portable Mp3 flash/drive recorder with line in - heck, 2 lines in, multi track recorder!! (for a REASONABLE price to please)

=)
LarryP wrote on 6/6/2004, 1:21 PM
Another church sound guy.

Our videographers often use the Telex assisted listening system for an audio feed. I have a special stereo mini cable to balanced XLR for them to use.

Ask if they can make a CD-R. We just swapped out our cassette recorder for a combo CD-R/Cassette (Tascam if I remember).

Larry
John_Cline wrote on 6/6/2004, 1:31 PM
The Pogo RipFlash Plus is a 256meg flash MP3/WMA player with line-in recording capabilities. It will sample at 32k, 44.1k and 48k and will encode MP3 up to 256kbits. It's about $150.

Pogo Products Web Site

John