Analog to DV converter or just get a digital camcorder?

rwsjr wrote on 1/18/2002, 2:37 PM

I have an ATI All-in-Wonder 128 that I had to purchase in pinch when I discovered my faithful Matrox Rainbow Runner would not work in my newly upgraded system. I feel better about the purchase since I only had to pay $75 of the $199 price after rebates, price adjustments and a second rebate from Best Buy due to ATI not turning around the first rebate check in the prescribed time.

To make a long story, short, I feel that I may be missing something when capturing video with this card. The sound gets out of sync at times and I must capture very large AVI files to be suitable for editing. I have a 60GB hard drive (7200 RPM) dedicated to video. However, the large captures only allow me to capture about 30 minutes of video at a time with some extra space left over for rendering the more compact mpeg 2 files. I’m using a 900 Athlon with 256MB RAM (motherboard is an EPOX).

I am capturing at a full 29.97 fps at 640 X 480. No problems with dropped frames. Most of the capturing is from Hi-8, a few 8mm tapes and eventually some VHS. Goal is to eventually move my edited tapes onto DVD. I have been rendering the files in the Main Concept DVD template. Since most of the files are relatively short clips, I am storing the mpeg 2 files on CD-R until the price of DVD burners falls at least into the low $300’s.

That’s the background. Here’s my issue. I have been curious about using Analog to DV converter as an option to capture. I’d like to capture with a format with a smaller file size (especially when I get to my VHS tapes) and quality closer to the source material. I’d appreciate your feedback on the following questions:

· Is the Hollywood Dazzle DV Bridge any good (especially compared to the AIW)?
· Is it unrealistic to expect to be able to capture an hour of full-frame DV and consume about 14GB of hard drive space per hour of capture? I think I heard that was the case, but I want to verify.
· How does VV3 capture work with this product?
· Is it more cost effective to just upgrade to a Digital Camcorder from my four year old Hi-8, and seek a camera with analog inputs, and pass through to DV?
· What about the Sony analog to DV converter? Heard it is being discontinued—any good deals out there?

I am doing this mostly for hobby. I might dabble in a few training videos (my day job is a training manager). With 2 year old twins, diapers and daycare, I am trying to stick to a budget.

Thanks for your ideas.

Comments

Chienworks wrote on 1/18/2002, 3:03 PM

You definately want to go with an analog to DV converter of some sort,
be it either a stand alone unit or a DV camcorder. The increase in quality
and stability is something you won't believe until you see it. It also
allows you a professional quality option for printing back to tape that
the ATI card just can't even come close to.

If you feel you would like a new camcorder at this point, then go with a
DV model that allows analog to DV pass through. That way you won't
need to get an external coverter box.

Vegas works natively in DV, and DV is DV on any converter or camera you
get, so it will all work together well. You will need to add a firewire port
to your computer if you don't already have one. Get a generic one; they
sell for about $25 to $35 these days. Use the Microsoft drivers for the
card and NOT any driver disk that may come with it. In fact, throw the
floppy in the trash before you even install the card, just so you won't
be tempted to use it! ;-)

DV files take about 225MB per minute, and 13.5MB per hour. This is more
than MPEG2, but it's also the best format for working with if you want
good quality and faster rendering.

I've got the SONY DVMC-DA2 and it's wonderful. I can't think of a single
thing to complain about with it. I paid about $300. I've also heard it's
being discontinued, but i'd guess it's so that SONY can introduce a DA3
model. I've never tried the Dazzle version, but if you search for Dazzle
in this forum you'll see lots of comments about it, both pro and con.

BD wrote on 1/18/2002, 9:14 PM

The Canopus Corp. sells a fine analog/DV converter (very highly rated) for $300: http://www.justedit.com/press/advcships.php3

In the long run, you might want a digital camcorder (with pass-through). However, an inexpensive DV cam may have optics that offer no real improvement over Hi8 which can be quite good.

Sony just announced a new digital video format that uses very small tapes. It may be somewhat better than the DV format, since it doubles the color bandwidth. This might reduce the prices of mini-DV camcorders after awhile.

jboy wrote on 1/18/2002, 10:23 PM

Go with a Sony Digital8 camcorder. It'll play your old Hi8 and 8mm tapes, has analog to digital pass thru, and will improve the quality of your old stuff by passing it thru in a rock steady fashion. Look for the last generation of the D8 camcorders, if you can still find them, (The 120,220,320,520, & 720). They should be cheaper than the current models,(The 130, 230, et al) which been value reduced by having features and/or LCD screen size reduced, and are essentiallty the same camera. I love mine, although they're definitely not 3 chip camcorders.

rstein wrote on 1/19/2002, 12:35 AM

I'll add general agreement to going with either the standalone Sony D-A converter or a camcorder with D-A conversion "pass-through." (Most Sony digital camcorders have this, whether D8 or mini-DV.

I would recommend against the Dazzle Hollywood Bridge. My experience with it was that VV3 complained of dropped frames virtually 100% of the time, and a repeatable problem occurred with sound becoming anomalous after capturing > 15 minutes of continuous video. In comparison, the Sony TRV730 and TRV117 pass-through is rock-solid.

I also will relate that I was very unhappy with the TRV730, not only for some image anomalies (little black "dimples" vertically at random times on playback) but for a horrifically loud motor that virtually ruined quiet scenes with an insanity-producing whine. It sounded like a hard disk drive with bad bearings. Granted, it may have been a sample defect, but there are multiple reports about the whiny motor on the 730. The 117 is much quieter, but doesn't have as good a light-gathering optic system and a much chintzier CCD. However, it's adequate for my needs. I also really like the forward and rewind speed of mini-DV compared to the 730, which was glacial.

Bob.

jtardiff wrote on 1/19/2002, 10:53 AM

I was in a nearly identical situation to yours just one month ago. In my case I have an ATI 64 DDR VIVO and had the same experience as you have had. It worked but it was downright painful.

Getting either a converter or a DVCAM with pass-thru will *change your experience* completely. I bought the Sony DVMC-DA2 which is a delightful little device that just sits on my desk. What was once a chore (converting VHS and Hi8 and then printing to tape) is now, quite literally almost fun.

I now feel like I have a little editing station right on my desk and my workflow us smooth and trouble-free.

Be sure to listen to Chienworks about the drivers!!! . Best of luck, Jil

jboy wrote on 1/19/2002, 12:05 PM

Re; the noisy sony 730 D8, I have the 720, the earlier version that I recommended, and its motor noise, although noticeable in a quiet room, is definitly not whiney or disturbingly loud. And the 4inch LCD screen sure is nice, (versus the 730's 3 1/2 inch screen, see my earlier post)..

JayC wrote on 1/19/2002, 1:15 PM

I just bought from "Video Direct Distributors" a
Sony DVMC-DA2 Media Converter $329.00 including shipping... It has not arrived yet so I am using a Sony DV 8 DCR-TRV320 (borrowed) and it works great, both direction..
Bi-Mart had the same camera for $599.00...
So you pick.. The converter would save ware and tear on the camera..

rstein wrote on 1/19/2002, 6:51 PM

Of course, if you're just using the camera for A-D conversion, there's really no wear and tear on it (since the transport's not doing anything).

Bob.

Caruso wrote on 1/23/2002, 7:28 PM

Interesting thread. Regarding the noisy motor, you might give Sony's external shoe-mount mike a try. Mine is dubbed "ECM-HS1" and fits into the smart shoe on top of the camcorder. I don't have a clue as to what the specs are for this little mike, but it has settings for zoom or gun, and seems to nicely target an area sufficiently away from the camcorder as to minimize the intrusion of motor noise.

Optimally, I'd like to find a splitter (mini-stereo to right and left channel mini or standard RCA female jacks) so that I could plug in my stand mics when recording music concerts so that I never have to worry about motor noise (or this user's fumbling thumb noise).

For now, I run a separate PCM camcorder just to insure that I get a clean sound track.

Of course, this approach won't do for action shots, but, then, I'd guess that noise might be somewhat less critical in an action situation.

My vote, BTW, would be for you to purchase a Digi8 camcorder for your conversions (only because that's what I'm using and it works for me).

Also, regarding the vertical artifacts, I'm wondering if these showed up in captured footage that was passed through the 730, or in raw footage that was shot through the lense or dubbed via the composite or Svideo inputs.

My lowly TRV103 will produce similar artifacts when I capture 8mm analog cassette footage via the firewire. I find that, if I dub the tapes from the my analog Hi8 camcorder via Svideo in to my Digi8 cam, the resultant digital version of the original footage is virtually artifact-free.

Caruso

pelvis wrote on 1/23/2002, 8:04 PM

The Canopus ADVC converter is really nice- worth checking out. I've only had it about a week (at most) and it seems to be at least as good as the Sony DVMC-DA2. Either one is a good pick, and the cost about the same.

PAL? Canopus does both PAL and NTSC (Sony doesn't).