Apples and (not) Orange/Teal - output templates

John McCully wrote on 9/27/2013, 12:42 AM

In an earlier post I asked a question about the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera and Vegas Pro 12 vs DaVinci Resolve. Again, many thanks to you who encouraged me to have a serious go with Resolve and in fact I have done just that. I agree; a remarkable program and for the movie colorist undoubtedly the cat’s pajamas however in many situations I find it extreme overkill and I get the job done using Vegas Pro 12 in a fraction of the time it takes me using Resolve. I should emphasize I am shooting mainly outdoor scenic footage and Vegas Pro 12 is just fine for that. I continue to play around with Resolve, and yes, when I decide to make a movie it will be Resolve all the way.

My question today pertains to the choice of render templates using Vegas Pro 12. I fully understand that it all depends on what one wants to do with the output and here are my desired end points:

1) A high quality master file, archived, backed up of course, in my collection.
2) A file destined for uploading to my Vimeo site (not all my products by any means).
3) A file for distribution to family and friends on USB drive and playable on most half-decent computers.

You might note no mention of DVDs or Blu Ray there.

Bear in mind I am dropping a ProRes 422 29.97 fps file on the timeline and making minimal adjustments including mild sharpening, adjusting saturation along with brightness and contrast and that’s about it. I’m not into the teal/orange fad or any other similar trendy thing so for the most part it’s quick and simple. I have found that to obtain the best looking output I need to render to the XDCAM EX 35 Mbps template. When I render to any of the AVCHD templates I get distortion, blocking and fuzziness, especially in the out-of-focus backgrounds especially forests. The other noteworthy outcome rendering to XDCAM 35 Mbps is the render speed; much quicker than AVCHD. Seems the XDCAM flies are also easier to play which is not a bad thing. The downside is the flies are bigger but not outrageously so, especially in this day and age.

I know I am mixing Apples and Sonys and both outfits would probably prefer I didn’t but other than that is there a downside with my workflow? Am I correct in concluding that the XDCAM codec is as good as it gets (after all these years) given my point of departure and desired outcomes?

I certainly appreciate the expertise here and look forward to any help and suggestions with this.

Cheers.

John

Comments

Mark_e wrote on 9/27/2013, 3:09 AM

Re. AVCHD blocking are you working in 8bit, was wondering if that might be doing it as prores 10bit 4:2:2 and it will be subsampling to 4:2:0 for AVCHD, perhaps doing the render to AVCHD in 32bit float might allow for better averaging before it's passed for compression and you'll get a better output, and perhaps bump the average up to 20,000 for the template. I found the preserve grain setting on the latest handbrake worked well for that sort of scene as well so output to DNxHD then use handbrake perhaps.

markymarkNY wrote on 9/27/2013, 9:30 PM

interesting...my experience is quite the opposite. I make quicker work of basic color correction with Resolve compared to Vegas - I just think the color scopes and the various sliders are easier to work with in Resolve. I also find that rendering on Resolve is a little faster than Vegas.

A high bitrate mp4 should suit the majority of needs very well: vimeo, youtube, usb, media player, etc. The h.264 codec seems to be king right now. h.265 is on the horizon though, it promises the same quality at half the bitrate. Technology has to keep up with the ever increasing video resolutions.

As for a master file, any of the almost lossless intermediate codecs should work fine depending on the source. You may as well just keep the original files out of the camera.

John McCully wrote on 9/28/2013, 1:13 AM

Thanks for the comments, and in the meantime I believe I might have the AVCHD blocking problem sorted. I should have known better than to mix many variables and hastily draw conclusions. I am learning to use a new camera, the BMPCC, and new software, Resolve, at the same time and I have been haphazardly skipping along when a plodding systematic approach would have been more appropriate. I was shooting at 30 fps (the highest) and have now switched to 29.97 fps and, for whatever reason, the blocking has disappeared. So that’s good. I’m not saying that was the problem but it might have been.

Regarding speed of working Vegas vs Resolve I should point out that, for the most part, I’m not doing colour correction per se but rather in Vegas just adjusting white balance using the eye-dropper tool which I find extremely useful (haven’t found such a tool in Resolve yet), applying a saturation preset (I have created three one of which most often one is just fine), adjusting the brightness and contrast (a couple of simple sliders) and that’s about it. I’m not adjusting colour curves and so on. I do take the time when shooting to get it right thereby minimizing post work and I’m just talking about quickly kicking ProRes files into shape. I hesitate to use silly analogies but let’s say I’m taking the little motor scooter to go to the corner dairy rather than getting out the gigantic Cadillac Cruisemobile with air conditioning, a built in bar and hot and cold running everything. Now if I was off to the other side of the country then that’s a different matter, but first I’d need to learn the way:-).

I am still very early in the Resolve learning game and no doubt that has something to do with it too. The really good news is that the results I’m getting with minimal work in post are very pleasing indeed. The BMPCC is quite the little cam. I know I shall get an EVF sooner rather than later as ensuring perfect focus using the screen outdoors is a challenge, to say the least.

Thanks again.