Are AMD processors good and reliable?

Sebaz wrote on 5/25/2010, 11:28 AM
I'm thinking about upgrading my system and I got curious about AMD processors seeing the high prices of Intel processors that never seem to go down too much. I checked a couple of websites that have x264 encoding benchmarks and the AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition Thuban 3.2GHz seems to be below only two of the Intel Extreme Edition processors, both selling for $1000, while the AMD is selling for $310. The Intel CPU that has the closest performance to the AMD but a little below, is the i7 960, and it sells for $570, so that's a $260 difference for an Intel processor that may win in other benchmarks but this is the most important benchmark to me since it's what takes me the most time in my aging Q6700.

Have any of you had good or bad experiences with AMD processors? I always bought Intel but I'm afraid I might be a victim of nonsense marketing the kind that Apple does, with the false notion that Macs are better for graphics, when you can build a hell of a beast PC for the same price of an underpowered iMac, and Photoshop and Illustrator are going to fly compared to the iMac. So I want to give the AMD CPU a try. Obviously there's always going to be something better, but in benchmarks from techarp.com on x264 encoding the AMD gives 30.53 fps at stock speed while mine gives 17.27 fps, also at stock speed. Obviously they must be using rather low quality settings or encoding to 720p because when I encode to x264 I get about 4.30 fps, but I use rather high quality settings, without them being the highest, and I normally encode to 1080i.

I would like to know if any of you has a notion of how well or bad Vegas runs under AMD Phenom CPUs. I think the 1090T has been released recently, but maybe some of you have the 4 core Phenoms. Do they perform well and reliably? Do they make AVCHD editing more tolerable in Vegas, especially in multi-camera? Most important, is Vegas stable under these CPUs? I don't know enough about computer science to know if the difference between AMD and Intel CPUs is invisible to applications, or if applications have to be programmed for both types, and if they succeed at that.

Thanks for any input.

Comments

TheHappyFriar wrote on 5/25/2010, 11:34 AM
I've been using AMD's on my custom systems since my XP 1800. I've had no issues with them that wearn't my own making. I'd say there as reliable (or vice versa) as Intel's. I currently have an AMI BIOS & don't have any issues.

Go for it.
John_Cline wrote on 5/25/2010, 12:06 PM
Evidence here on the forum clearly suggests that people using machines using Intel motherboards, chipsets and Intel CPUs have had far fewer problems than others. The only truly Intel compatible machine IS an Intel machine.

That said, SCS has had some sort of marketing agreement in which AMD sponsors a part of the Vegas user's party at NAB for the last 5 or 6 years. However, recently when SCS decided to market fully configured, turn-key systems, they have chosen Intel CPUs and supporting chipsets.

To me, the only advantage AMD has over Intel is that they're inexpensive but don't perform as well as Intel's best stuff.
Alvin Smith wrote on 5/25/2010, 12:59 PM
This is your lucky day ...

In a nutshell, the answer is YES ... And ... I am a veteran, at Tom's Hardware Guide's "New Systems Build" Forum.

I shall take mercy upon your troubled soul and (right here, before your very eyes), I will build and cost (for you) a mid-budget VEGAS-PRO/CS5 render rig. ... Adjustments can be made, to shave cost, but here is what I am currently recommending, to the troops. Add a second, identical video card (GPU) for more than two monitors ...

WARNING: If you use the most recent Blackmagic design products and/or also use CS5, then an INTEL socket 1366 X58 mobo with USB3 is recommended (but rogue beta-testers may prove certain/particular AMD configurations as "just fine", in coming months).

Motherboard: An 890FX chipset based ASUS or GIGABYTE mobo is recommended ... The MSI (mobo) implementation has performance issues.

PROC: Yes ... VEGAS PRO can use up to 8 threads ... so a 6-core (threads) *IS* advisable ... the fastest you can afford.

AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition Thuban 3.2GHz 6 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Six-Core
$309.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103849&Tpk=black%20edition%20x6

A GOOD CPU cooler (for a very fair price of $25)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065&cm_re=hyper_212-_-35-103-065-_-Product

GIGABYTE GA-890FXA-UD5 AM3 AMD 890FX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX
$179.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128441

.. OR ..

ASUS M4A89TD PRO AM3 AMD 890FX SATA 6Gb/s ATX
.. also .. $179.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131645

RAM: RipJaws DDR3/1600c7 4GB(2x2GB) Dual ch kit or 8GB kit
$109.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231303
or, for $249 (8GB tested kit)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231329

GPU: ATTENTION ... You want an nVidia card supporting OpenGL3.2 (3.x), for "graphics industry compatibility" (tho not explicitly "required" for VEGAS).

ZOTAC ZT-20109-10P GeForce GTS 250 1GB 256-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support
$129.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500152

(get two cards for more than two monitors ... unless you are using a capture card for output mon).

Memory
Effective Memory Clock 2000MHz
Memory Size 1GB
Memory Interface 256-bit
Memory Type DDR3
3D API
DirectX DirectX 10
OpenGL OpenGL 3.2
Ports
HDMI 1 x HDMI
D-SUB 1 x D-SUB
DVI 1 x DVI

Well ... "ALL that" is what we call your "GPU/Compute Core" ...

This is a LOT of work, so if you are REALLY interested (in talking about your storage/bandwidth requirements, and the rest of this build, then you are gonna have to ask me to continue, directly).

You can camp out here, and ask lots of questions ... use the "sticky form", at the top of the page "HOW TO ASK FOR BUILD ADVICE".

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum-31-322.html

= Alvin Smith =



i c e wrote on 5/25/2010, 1:17 PM
I love AMD's, I have found them to be much more powerful than the Intels...only the run much hotter and as result can crash faster.. just make sure you have good venting, maybe add a fan.


peace
John_Cline wrote on 5/25/2010, 1:55 PM
"I have found them to be much more powerful than the Intels"

This simply isn't true.
Alvin Smith wrote on 5/25/2010, 2:05 PM

Budget and "work load" will govern your choice.

One of the BIG issues, we have not discussed, is YOUR WILLINGNESS to OVERCLOCK.

To get ANY sort of decent cost/performance, from an i7-930 (the only i7 worth the money), you MUST OVERCLOCK ...

... At standard clock? The AMD 6-Core is *approximately* on par with a 930. (but the 930 excells at the most intense multithreaded renders).

Again ... your budget and upgrade path, as well as your volume of output and the BITRATE of your codecs, should JUSTIFY the INTEL vs. AMD choice.

REMEMBER that an AM3 socket has ~980 pins ... an i7-930 has 1366 and this will be a factor, if you ever move to an 8Core (on THIS mobo).

= Alvin =
farss wrote on 5/25/2010, 2:11 PM
The unknown is how well the x264 benchmarks translate into a comparison of how fast Vegas will run similar code on Intel and AMD CPUs. The same goes for multiple cores. Using them is one thing, using them effectively is another.

Bob.
Alvin Smith wrote on 5/25/2010, 2:13 PM
This is OUR standard CPU benchmark compaison tool ...

Check it out !

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/146?vs=47

The i7-930 has NOT yet been added to the benches, so I have used the slightly slower 920, as a substitute for the 930 (which would clearly rule).

REMEMBER this is at "standard clock rate" ... OC'd, the 930 would TROUNCE !

= Alvin Smith =

Alvin Smith wrote on 5/25/2010, 2:27 PM
Well, Bob, I'd say that the Cinebench and all those transcode type benchmarks are fairly "telling" of what can be expected, especially because SONY VEGAS *IS* one of the render benchmarks that is commonly used (at Anandtech, at least).

The MAIN reason for all these extra cores and RAM is to shave a few hours off of our ~7hr~12hr hi-Q output renders and when attempting multiple streams of layered, RT effects.

As far as "common (4 layer) edit sessions" go ... one might not even be able to tell the diff between an Athlon-II 3Core 435@~2.8GHz and a 930.

Once the "Crunching" begins ... the Pros and the Amatures part ways ...

... I am STILL (somewhat) considering an 890FX/965BE solution, for the next 3 years, ** B U T ** ... I expect ONLY to be working with 24Mb/second codecs ...

... ANYTHING above 24Mb/sec ??? >>> GO DIRECTLY TO X58 Express.

SO ... to para-phrase ...

Got 4:2:2 ??? >>> DO 1366 !

= Alvin =
Sebaz wrote on 5/25/2010, 3:25 PM
This is a LOT of work, so if you are REALLY interested (in talking about your storage/bandwidth requirements, and the rest of this build, then you are gonna have to ask me to continue, directly).

Thanks, Alvin, actually I don't want to build a new system (well, I'd like to, but I want to save at least a bit of money somewhere) but more to upgrade it, and I will do it myself, since it's the same computer that I assembled in 2007 and upgraded over time.

The AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition Thuban 3.2GHz with the GIGABYTE GA-890FXA-UD5 motherboard seems like a great combination, although the motherboard is really ugly with those light blue colored components, but I don't have one of those gamer transparent cases so it's not a big deal.

The only bummer is that it doesn't take DDR2 RAM, so those nice 8 GB that I had will have to be stay on the shelf, or sold at a big loss on Craigslist.

Is Gigabyte THE brand to buy when it comes to motherboards? This one seems to have good customer reviews, but I don't want to go for the "brand" no more that I don't care to go for Apple, or Sony, or glorify any brand on a specific type of product. For example, Sony has great TVs, even their entry level ones, but their receivers and speakers to me are pretty mediocre, and all brands have their strong products and their not so good ones.
farss wrote on 5/25/2010, 4:09 PM
Your comments bolster what I was saying. It all can well depend on what you're doing.
Clearly if Cinebench shows one CPU to be double the speed of another I seriously doubt a different test would reverse the comparison. However when you start fretting over a 5% difference it's another matter. Personally I've never worried much about render speed. Vegas's lacklustre playback performance is of much more interest to me as an editor doing cuts.

Bob.
Alvin Smith wrote on 5/25/2010, 4:19 PM
Are you casting doubt that 890FX/965BE(Quad)4GB/250GTS won't provide a smooth and snappy edit experience for HDV/25Mb/s 4 Layer ?

= Al = (?!)

Alvin Smith wrote on 5/25/2010, 4:25 PM
ASUS and GIGABYTE are what we generally (fairly exclusively) recommend.

ABOUT YOUR DDR2 !

Might be possible to salvage ... The question to ask, over at THG (I'll repost the link, here) ....

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum-31-322.html

IS THERE A HEXABLE MOBO THAT SUPPORTS DDR2 ???

That is your thread title but do not use all caps ... ( !EVER! ). Also!!! Do
*NOT* use excessive punctuation ... it can irritate some folks. (tee-hee).

= Alvin =
Sebaz wrote on 5/25/2010, 4:47 PM
In all the benchmarks I've seen for this CPU, it seems to me that it's great at video related applications and less great at some others, such as graphics and some programs that are not well optimized for multi-threading. But still, it's a beast for every possible application, even if it falls slightly below Intel counterparts for a few, but it's still fast as hell, and it seems to be great for encoding video, which is what I need it for. I just hope that it's great for Vegas, but more for editing AVCHD than for encoding, because Vegas doesn't have a great h.264 encoder, so for that I export to a lossless file and then encode with MeGUI to x264.
TheHappyFriar wrote on 5/25/2010, 6:23 PM
Evidence here on the forum clearly suggests that people using machines using Intel motherboards, chipsets and Intel CPUs have had far fewer problems than others. The only truly Intel compatible machine IS an Intel machine.

That's a FLAT OUT LIE. Almost EVERY issue posted on this forum is from people who use Intel CPU's & Intel chipsets. There's very few here who use AMD but they don't post nearly as many issues as Intel users do.
Alvin Smith wrote on 5/25/2010, 6:32 PM
Performance is the only issue, when deciding between AMD and INTEL.

That, and socket-life and which boards might support various hardware peripherals configs.

Software compatibility, with ANY VERSION OF VEGAS is not at question or issue.

VEGAS CANNOT TELL WHICH AND DOES NOT CARE IN THE LEAST

AMD mobos (properly implemented, as any INTEL counterpart must be), are 100% compatible with VEGAS, as are ALL modern INTEL mobos.

... There may be a very few issues with POOR implementations of obscure IGP chipsets but, a standard reference design, such as an 890FX/8550SB native design is ... "PURELY GOLDEN" unless your bandwidth requirements exceed it's max performance (4:2:2 dense codecs and HD-SDI(RT).

= Al =
Steve Mann wrote on 5/25/2010, 8:27 PM
"There's very few here who use AMD but they don't post nearly as many issues as Intel users do."

That is a circular argument. There are fewer AMD users so they post fewer "issues", therefore AMD processors are somehow better??

I've never seen any empirical evidence that one processor is more reliable than another. I've used both for what seems like forever, and processor stability has never been an issue.

Steve Mann
Alvin Smith wrote on 5/25/2010, 9:51 PM
Dudes!

ALL VEGAS SEES OR CARES ABOUT IS :

(1) X86 Language
(2) Clock Rate
(3) # of available thread processes
(4) Amount Total RAM
(5) Basic/minimum DirectX (8?..9?) support
(6) OpenGL 2.x

INTEL ? ... AMD ? ... Makes abso-LUTE-ly *NO* difference (for 64-bit procs).

Strictly a matter of how fast various and particular operations are performed and at what cost.

ANY "problems" likely derive from ever cheaper parts, at the very low end.

Remember, ... We are talking about the VERY same manufacturers making BOTH flavors. ASUS, MSI, GIGABYTE ... they ALL do AMD and INTEL.

When you buy a Power Supply Unit, that costs under $50, expect an increased risk of power related issues, etc.

So as long as the execution of the native reference implementation is proper and accurate ... *NO* worries ... INTEL vs. AMD ???? Just look at the benchmarks and compare costs .. the market is TOTALLY stratified at $50 price increments ... There are several "sweet spots" (cost performance) but the stratification is fairly linear, in terms of $$$-per-ops, with either brand.

What I am saying is that we have it down to a science ... You give me a dollar budget, for a usage build, and I will spit you out a balanced rig that has distributed performance, for that budget total.

This has been graphically charted and published (periodically) throughout decades of CPU history.

= yawn =
A. Grandt wrote on 5/26/2010, 8:51 AM
"The MSI (mobo) implementation has performance issues."

I can vote for that one. I have one of those, and I am NOT happy about especially it's HDD performance. In this day and age I ought to get better than 60MB/s between a newly defragged drive, and a freshly formatted one. MSI does not deliver that.

Other than that, I'm happy with AMD, and you definitely get more bang for the buck on them. For raw speed and tall budget, I'd say the Intel CPU's look good, but they are much more expensive.
musicvid10 wrote on 5/26/2010, 9:20 AM
Whenever I look for a new motherboard, regardless of what tomshardware recommends, I first go to the discount shelves and see what mobo restocks/refurbs are there in numbers. Then I know what not to buy. Both Asus and Gigabyte have some great products, but they've been known to turn out some duds, too.
JJKizak wrote on 5/26/2010, 2:46 PM
I have used AMD and Intel CPU's and have had no problems with any of them except for the newer fan/heatsink assemblies of the Intels which you need a 100 ton press to install them to the motherboard. I have used Gigabyte, Intel, Suppermicro and MSI boards and the only one without any probelm including drivers was the Supermicro. Gigabyte had bad SATA drivers for a few months, Intel had memory problems with their older boards and I can't remember the MSI stuff.
JJK
Dach wrote on 5/26/2010, 3:32 PM
Personally I have been influenced by cost and for that reason I always lean towards AMD. Since I started using Gigabyte / AMD combinations on my custom built systems I have been very pleased.

Just my 2 cents,

Chad
Laurence wrote on 5/26/2010, 5:13 PM
As a laptop user, I only use Intel, and only the laptop specific versions of their chips. I have been burned (literally) in the past by overheating laptops (one was a Macbook), and won't use an AMD processor in one because of heat issues, and avoid laptops where they scrimped by using desktop CPUs instead of mobile versions because the desktop versions generate more heat.
Spectralis wrote on 7/29/2010, 7:16 PM
I've just built a PC with a AMD Phenom II X6 1090T cpu, a Gigabyte GA-770TA-UD3 mobo, 8GB Ram and Win 7 64-bit. I used this mobo because it has 4 x PCI for my 3 x UAD-1 and 1 x Powercore PCI cards.

I've installed everything and it works very well so far. The only issue I'm not sure about is that Vegas 9 32-bit won't go beyond 4 rendering threads. I thought that a six core cpu would allow more? The reason I'm using Vegas 9 32-bit is so that I can use all my 32-bit plugins.