Howdy VegMiesters!
As per title. Reason? I'm havng issues with it working as an OFX and more to the point I'd ;like to get a reality check from those in the same or similar boat to see if there is any convergence.
Luvin' the new Brush Painter for quickly determining a Tracking Mask - marvelous!
G
I installed it yesterday, but I have not tried it yet. And I must confess I have not used mocha since I purchased the OFX bundle almost for free together with continuum on a black Friday deal last year...
There is a free training course on the new 2020 tonight at 8 pm (Belgian) time you can enlist.
I installed it yesterday, ....deal last year...
@bitman - Hi there! So, do you have MP2020? By the sound of it, then no.
There is a free training course on the new 2020 tonight at 8 pm (Belgian) time you can enlist.
@bitman - Good to know. I’ll check it out. However, MP2020 or not, I’m wanting to hear your experience of it being an OFX in VP17, if you wouldn’t mind? Especially it’s ability to reconnect and play a Remove Render back on the VP17 Timeline. Do have a Stopwatch ready. 😉.....
I've used it, fairly extensively, in conjunction with After Effects, it comes included, at least a cut down, but still powerful version. I would not know, of course, how well that integrates, but I would imagine that given the two companies' long tenure working together, that would not be a problem.
I've used it, fairly extensively, in conjunction with After Effects, it comes included, at least a cut down, but still powerful version.
@zdogg - Sure. AE must have its own method of internal rendering for MP. What or how good is the AE FrameRate? Real-time? 50%, or maybe less?
I would not know, of course, how well that integrates,
@zdogg - And that’s what I’m after. You really can’t compare your experience in AE to that of VP working MP as an OFX.
but I would imagine that given the two companies' long tenure working together, that would not be a problem.
@zdogg - I too would like to have thought the Partnership would make the difference, but your imagination is 1000x better than the actuality in the results of OFX Preview Framerates for the Remove Render.
OK, I’ve installed the Demo Standalone and MOCHAPRO2020 is a speed demon. It demonstrates exactly what we’d ALL expect. So my MONSTA! is definitely up to the job. But sadly, the OFX overheads, used in VegasPro17, should be experienced. That’s why I’m interested in BitMan’s feedback, or other VegHeads using MOCHAPRO2020 as an OFX in VP17.
It’ll be excellent if they can get a timely solution. Why? ‘Cos MOCHA is amazing.
Well, Mocha in AE is really operating almost like a stand alone, it will export out of AE footage your wanting to work on - and you can open that in mocha, and then mocha takes over, THEN, you are going to be importing masks back, from Mocha into AE, utilizing the frame numbers of the now "common" footage" as the referencing point, but that is it, the integration is somewhat loose. It works well but it ain't exactly automatic.
Paesan, it's like ordering your cappuccino at Gino's Bakery, they give you the espresso and the cup, sure enough, but you have to foam your own milk.
My point is: if the methodology is anywhere close to a parallel, then Mocha is operating alone while VP is sitting there, and not slowing Mocha down, at all, again and I would suspect YES, that is how it would work, but just an educated guess.
I don't know what "remove render" would be.... to be honest. Never encountered that phrase in my Mocha AE round trip, which is what it really is.
You got that last year? 2020 has just been released
When a BCC product like Mocha Pro is purchased, there are free updates and even upgrades to a newer version (eg: MP 2020) for the 12 months from the purchase date. There is then the option of renewing the subscription for the next 12 months. Given that Black Friday 2018 is less than 12 months ago, MP2020 would be available to anyone with a current subscription.
Similarly, I also have installed MP2020 but have not as yet had a chance to test it out due to my editing computer being currently devoted to the rendering and re-rendering a big project nearing completion.
I don't know what "remove render" would be
With Mocha Pro OFX in Vegas Pro, HitFilm and Resolve, after using the Remove tool in MP, the MP project is saved and then closed which then reverts back to the Video Event FX window (in the case of VP). In the controls for MP in the FX window, there is a Render/Remove selection which is needed to be actioned in order to finalise the MP Remove process (a similar finalisation also applies with MP OFX in HF and Resolve). I think this is what Grazie might be referring to in relation to calling upon Vegas Pro resources when using MP OFX within VP.
Update: Used as a Plugin, MOCHAPRO 2020 requires GPU Acceleration to be turned off otherwise MP preview produces Black Frames and inconsistencies of Tracked Frame resulting in Jumping relocation of Frames. I’ve been informed that there should be a fix coming shortly.
As a comparison DATUM I can confirm that the Standalone MP2020 works fine so it’s not my Rig nor MP itself. This and the OFF of GPU confirms the issues lie with the way in which VEGASPRO17 is utilising GPU to this 3rd Party Partner software.
@zdogg - Jokin’ aside, this is not the first time that the GPU Acceleration process has been found wanting. As I say, the people at BORIS/MOCHA are presently constructing a workable solution and, hopefully, if they do need the further assistance of MAGIX/VegasPro Engineers that that door would be opened to them.
My MONSTA! is not the issue here. It’s the Triumvirate of BORIS<>MAGIX<>NVIDIA alliance that needs to be worked by those involved. All I can do is test test and re-test again, on a machine that’s been conformed to the rigours of this NLE activity by this Forum and also from feedback from both BORIS/Mocha and MAGIX.
As always, I’m wanting not only the best for myself but in turn the best for our VegasPro User base using OFX Plugs using GPU Acceleration.
@zdogg - And now I’ll go and have myself a cuppa Joe. Thanks y’ll for stepping by!
Used as a Plugin, MOCHAPRO 2020 requires GPU Acceleration to be turned off
@Grazie … Thank you very much for pursuing this matter and alerting us to the cause of the problem - it is much appreciated. It's great that we now know the cause of the problem and of a workaround until the pesky little compatibility problem is resolved.
@Grazie Which sort of tasks are you needing Mocha for, if I may ask? Rotoscoping?
Like i suggested, even in AE, using Mocha for such tasks was at several step process per the round tripping, but it was still well worth it, but it's really learning two programs and some round tripping routines.
@Grazie Which sort of tasks are you needing Mocha for, if I may ask? Rotoscoping?
@zdogg - Roto, yes. But also clashing Sapphire or Particle Illusion into the same Event. However the MAJESTICALLY Creative Remove!
Like i suggested, even in AE, using Mocha for such tasks was at several step process per the round tripping, but it was still well worth it, but it's really learning two programs and some round tripping routines.
@zdogg - yes, sure, understood. However the Plug ostensibly allows and HAS allowed for simple output from the previewing in MP workspace back to VP and then have that as part of the Render. I’ve worked this on a sequence of a Landcruiser Vanishing in the Namibian Desert, with all that’s left is the Ghost Dust vanishing into the distance, which I can then augment with Particle Illusion Dust being tracked by the Spline Mask from MOCHA. Marvellous! But this ALL happens within the Plug. However, it’s the handshake of GPU acceleration that is hobbeling the outcome FrameRate. Mocha acknowledges my nVidia and the allotted RAM for it so it SHOULD be good to go.
There are different "levels" of Mocha. The one I used in AE is that version that just comes with AE, which is their "basic" offering; which version would you be discussing here, and what is that price level and integration level with VP, if you don't mind me asking.
@zdogg - Sure:
I’m now using MP2020. And here’s the comparison chart and pricing structures: https://borisfx.com/products/mocha-pro/#compare
Have a look at the Brush Painter tool for very organic Mask Creation which converts to Splines! Total VooDoo!
Integration with VP? Seamless. Same integration as any VEGAS OFX - Done! But and this is presently a BIG BUT, the overheads in getting Preview up to FPS is way less than moderate, almost glacial. This and the black frames from dealing with GPU ACCELERATION on is at the crux of my thread here. We’ve determined that my rig is go for the process, but VP17 B321 has created some dodgy issues with MP2020. Having visited the BORIS Team at IBC19 (at my cost) last month, the timing of the release of both was “unfortunate”. I’m guessing you can imagine my response to that one.
The Amsterdam trip was stunning! Great Town, great people and great nosh and beer!
@zdogg ... the following link to Boris FX's Mocha website shows the comparison between Mocha AE (and Mocha HitFilm - but both with some minor differences) and Mocha Pro:
https://borisfx.com/products/mocha-pro/#compare
The Mocha Pro plug-in for Vegas Pro is the OFX version. Significantly, the AE/HitFilm versions do not have the Remove and Stabilisation tools which are included in the full Mocha Pro version which are included in the OFX offering. Pricing for the many Mocha Pro versions are available on BorisFX's webpage.
Edit: just checked before lodging and no other comments, but Grazie got there first by the time I hit 'post'.
I just updated my MP2019 to the 2020 version. So now I have the area brush. On my machine the preview is extremely slow. So I switched off the GPU rendering and it became a little faster.
However, like Bitman, I haven't used MOcha Pro at all since I bought it last december. The learning curve is to much and I haven't had the time to learn it. I would love to learn it though. It would up my production quality and if there was a good may to learn it I would pursue it right now. Being Swedish reading the condenced instructions in the English manual is tiring. Some good old Youtube tutorials would be great! Slowly and clearly.
@Martin L ... BorisFX's website has a heap of Mocha Pro tutorials under the Training menu including on some of the new 2020 features (which I haven't viewed yet I must confess). They sometimes feature tutorials made by surfacedstudio.com which are great, but the presenter is quite effervescent.
BTW, my introduction to Mocha (not Pro) was when it was first included in HitFilm Pro many years ago. At the time, FXHome had a couple of good tutorials on their website about planar tracking in Mocha which is still essentially the same now as back then, but now greatly refined of course. The principles are still the same though.
Thanks Dexcon, I'll look into those as soona as I can get time for it. Looking forward to using MP2020.
Hmmm. .... How do I say this? PLEEEEASE TRY IT now! The Paint Brush thingie is pure VooDoo. 👹🎃😤
Hmmm. .... How do I say this? PLEEEEASE TRY IT now! The Paint Brush thingie is pure VooDoo. 👹🎃😤
I have already tried it but I just don't seem to get the hang of it. For starters, do you need to make a parent track, a child track, or not? On which of those should the MP effect be applied? However I do it I get no results back on the Vegas timeline. I do manage to apply it on a track and open the Mocha plugin interface and to apply the Paint Brush and it is really cool tracker. But then I don't see how to bring it back into Vegas. My head must be too thick...or worn out.
So what I would need is a really good step by step tutorial.