Article: cheaper HD chips mean cheaper cams
prairiedogpics
wrote on 12/12/2005, 12:44 PM
Comments
p@mast3rs
wrote on 12/12/2005, 4:35 PM
"The new family of chips from Ambarella operate on less than a watt of power, far less than most semiconductor chips, making them ideal for portable gadgets that need a lot of battery life. The chips compress and play back video in a new format called H.264, a high-definition format that will replace the aging MPEG-2 video used today in a variety of technologies."
While I am a HUGE HUGE fan of H.264 AVC, in no way is it ready or at the stage to be put in a camera for recording. Still, I fear we will have the same problems we have now with these crappy DVD cameras in that support to edit the content took forever to get here. H.264 AVC is still pretty much in its early growing stages as the quality has improved greatly over the last year but even with a dual core system, HD playback is a challenge with H.264 AVC at 720p or higher.
I have a friend that works at a major OS developing company (not Apple) and word has it that this company is developing a HD cam that uses VC-1/WM9 to record to disc/hard drive. Its easy to figure out who we are talking about and it doesnt surprise me. I still like WM9 HD because my systems can play back without being taxed too heavily. But for SD, H.264 AVC plays beautifully.
Furthermore, when are these companies going to stop lumping in digital cameras into video cameras? The majority of vid cams that double as digital cams I have seen just plain suck. Quality is less than to be desired. Just give me a good HD cam and let me pick out my own digital camera.
While I am a HUGE HUGE fan of H.264 AVC, in no way is it ready or at the stage to be put in a camera for recording. Still, I fear we will have the same problems we have now with these crappy DVD cameras in that support to edit the content took forever to get here. H.264 AVC is still pretty much in its early growing stages as the quality has improved greatly over the last year but even with a dual core system, HD playback is a challenge with H.264 AVC at 720p or higher.
I have a friend that works at a major OS developing company (not Apple) and word has it that this company is developing a HD cam that uses VC-1/WM9 to record to disc/hard drive. Its easy to figure out who we are talking about and it doesnt surprise me. I still like WM9 HD because my systems can play back without being taxed too heavily. But for SD, H.264 AVC plays beautifully.
Furthermore, when are these companies going to stop lumping in digital cameras into video cameras? The majority of vid cams that double as digital cams I have seen just plain suck. Quality is less than to be desired. Just give me a good HD cam and let me pick out my own digital camera.
farss
wrote on 12/12/2005, 4:41 PM
Also let's not forget that a major cost component of HiDef cameras is the lens. Advances in computers have made the design and manufacture cheaper but still good glass is very expensive, to say nothing of HEAVY!
Bob.
Bob.
Spot|DSE
wrote on 12/12/2005, 4:51 PM
While I am a HUGE HUGE fan of H.264 AVC, in no way is it ready or at the stage to be put in a camera for recording.
Tell that to Thomson/Grass Valley. In addition to their new scalable JPEG 2000-based cameras, they've also been developing MPEG 4 recording solutions.
Tell that to Thomson/Grass Valley. In addition to their new scalable JPEG 2000-based cameras, they've also been developing MPEG 4 recording solutions.
Coursedesign
wrote on 12/12/2005, 4:54 PM
Long live JPEG2000!
I have seen it projected at 2K resolution, and it looks goooood. Part of the Digital Cinema Initiative, good stuff.
Nice to work with, too.
I have seen it projected at 2K resolution, and it looks goooood. Part of the Digital Cinema Initiative, good stuff.
Nice to work with, too.
Spot|DSE
wrote on 12/12/2005, 5:00 PM
I agree. J2K is a huge part of the future. Funny that we've practically come full circle from MJPEG to J2K. Very different, but very similar.
farss
wrote on 12/12/2005, 5:09 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't these lovely offerings from Thompson use Op-Atom in which case things get kind of tricky using Vegas with them?
Sorry to harp on about this but these cameras are looking very attractive to us. Only problem is Thompson is not exactly a brand name burnt into the local psyche down here, more's the pity though.
Bob.
Sorry to harp on about this but these cameras are looking very attractive to us. Only problem is Thompson is not exactly a brand name burnt into the local psyche down here, more's the pity though.
Bob.
p@mast3rs
wrote on 12/12/2005, 5:26 PM
Mpeg-4 is easier to encode at a faster rate or in this case, record/capture. H.264 AVC is way way more CPU intensive. I just find it hard to believe that a video camera can outperform a dual core system when it comes to encoding H.264 AVC. So I am assuming Grass/Thomson is using Mepg-4 ASP and not H.264 AVC.
fldave
wrote on 12/12/2005, 5:42 PM
"Thompson is not exactly a brand name burnt into the local psyche down here"
Spread this info around down there:
Thomson SA:
Six months before Thomas Edison opened his first power station in New York, Elihu Thomson's system was lighting streets in Kansas City, Missouri.
In 1892, the merger of Thomson-Houston and Edison General Electric companies formed General Electric.
Wartime experience convinced Assistant Navy Secretary Franklin D Roosevelt that radio patents should be kept under American control. General Electric, which was planning a major sale of broadcasting equipment to the British Marconi Company, was asked to take the lead in organising an American radio concern. GE agreed, and the Radio Corporation of America was born in October 1919.
RCA took over the assets of American Marconi and responsibility for marketing the radio equipment produced by GE and Westinghouse.
By 1977 RCA had introduced the first four hour home video cassette recorder.
Stereo television was added in the mid 1980s and the entire RCA Corporation was sold in 1986 to rival - and founder - General Electric. GE in turn sold its RCA and GE Consumer Electronics business to Thomson Consumer Electronics at the end of 1987.
Thomson/RCA have led the way in development of these new technologies winning an Emmy award in 1996 for their work in pioneering High Definition Television.
Edited to clarify that Thomson is huge in our industry. Hope I didn't come off too harsh.
Spread this info around down there:
Thomson SA:
Six months before Thomas Edison opened his first power station in New York, Elihu Thomson's system was lighting streets in Kansas City, Missouri.
In 1892, the merger of Thomson-Houston and Edison General Electric companies formed General Electric.
Wartime experience convinced Assistant Navy Secretary Franklin D Roosevelt that radio patents should be kept under American control. General Electric, which was planning a major sale of broadcasting equipment to the British Marconi Company, was asked to take the lead in organising an American radio concern. GE agreed, and the Radio Corporation of America was born in October 1919.
RCA took over the assets of American Marconi and responsibility for marketing the radio equipment produced by GE and Westinghouse.
By 1977 RCA had introduced the first four hour home video cassette recorder.
Stereo television was added in the mid 1980s and the entire RCA Corporation was sold in 1986 to rival - and founder - General Electric. GE in turn sold its RCA and GE Consumer Electronics business to Thomson Consumer Electronics at the end of 1987.
Thomson/RCA have led the way in development of these new technologies winning an Emmy award in 1996 for their work in pioneering High Definition Television.
Edited to clarify that Thomson is huge in our industry. Hope I didn't come off too harsh.
Spot|DSE
wrote on 12/12/2005, 5:43 PM
I'm not sure what they're using Patrick. It's a likely save assumption though that it's not MPEG 4Part 10
farss
wrote on 12/12/2005, 10:32 PM
Not too harsh at all, although as I understand it, this is a Grass Valley - Thompson venture. Grass Valley is certainly a well known brand here but not for cameras. Thing is it's pretty much Sony / Panasonic / Canon / JVC that's the names that spring to peoples minds at our market segment.
Convincing them of the value of shooting with a $50K Sony camera is one thing but ask them to use a $50K Ikegami or Thompson and ya kind of loose 'em.
Bob.
Convincing them of the value of shooting with a $50K Sony camera is one thing but ask them to use a $50K Ikegami or Thompson and ya kind of loose 'em.
Bob.
Spot|DSE
wrote on 12/12/2005, 10:58 PM
FWIW, Grass Valley *is* Thomson.
Grass Valley was mostly known for switchers and routers, plus some storage and other bussing stuff. Thomson, formerly Philips, bought them and their distribution network. Now all the Thomson cams sport Grass Valley logos on them.
Now that they're one company...it seems they're rapidly moving into the lower cost categories as well as maintaining high end tools.
Grass Valley was mostly known for switchers and routers, plus some storage and other bussing stuff. Thomson, formerly Philips, bought them and their distribution network. Now all the Thomson cams sport Grass Valley logos on them.
Now that they're one company...it seems they're rapidly moving into the lower cost categories as well as maintaining high end tools.
farss
wrote on 12/13/2005, 2:38 AM
Thanks for the info, down here they're mostly referred to as "Thompson Grass Valley" which led me to believe it was a joint merger kind of deal, news travels slow down to the antipedes :)
Bob.
Bob.
Coursedesign
wrote on 12/13/2005, 5:20 AM
fldave,
Thanks for the great history of GE!
Wasn't there a PBS special about this some years ago?
Thomson/Philips TV studio cameras have a very good reputation. Some models are legendary like the LDK6000 HD camera with three 9.2 Mpixel progressive CCDs, 1080i/720p on the fly, 22-bit video DSP, and lots more.
Thomson/Philips studio cameras have been popular in Europe for a very long time, and deservedly so.
Thanks for the great history of GE!
Wasn't there a PBS special about this some years ago?
Thomson/Philips TV studio cameras have a very good reputation. Some models are legendary like the LDK6000 HD camera with three 9.2 Mpixel progressive CCDs, 1080i/720p on the fly, 22-bit video DSP, and lots more.
Thomson/Philips studio cameras have been popular in Europe for a very long time, and deservedly so.
Quryous
wrote on 12/13/2005, 8:36 AM
Hmm! But where did I get the nagging memory that Thompson, SA, was, is a FRENCH company today?
Spot|DSE
wrote on 12/13/2005, 8:40 AM
They predominantly are French, but keep in mind there are different divisions.
Coursedesign
wrote on 12/13/2005, 11:31 AM
...where did I get the nagging memory that Thompson, SA, was, is a FRENCH company today?
Why? Did you want fries with that? :O)
(BTW, "French fries" were invented in Belgium, and they still taste better there than in France. Difference is that they are blanched before the frying, so they're less greasy and healthier, too. There used to be a very good "Belgian Fries" place in Santa Monica, it disappeared when they redid the Santa Monica Mall and raised the rents a few times over.)
Few people seem to know that the U.S. has been importing oil from France for a long time. Don't know where it's coming in now though, it used to land in New Orleans.
Why? Did you want fries with that? :O)
(BTW, "French fries" were invented in Belgium, and they still taste better there than in France. Difference is that they are blanched before the frying, so they're less greasy and healthier, too. There used to be a very good "Belgian Fries" place in Santa Monica, it disappeared when they redid the Santa Monica Mall and raised the rents a few times over.)
Few people seem to know that the U.S. has been importing oil from France for a long time. Don't know where it's coming in now though, it used to land in New Orleans.