. . .sorry BK. But who is Robert Evans? - I really don't care if my ignorance is showing on this one. Pray, tell me?

Grazie

My personal thought on Vegas is that it IS the Final CUT for The P.C. I use 4.0 for everything on th eprodution side of my bussines. The software is written quite well, I find my current system limits me on rendering times and a few capture problems as well. With a more powerful system I will get the most out of Vegas. It does need a little more hype so us P.C. guys can get more credit for sticking with a P.C. base editing program. I hope Sony hears your wish list. Sounds good to me, However..Dont take anything out!I use the H.D. stuff and I find the versatility wuite useful. I pray Sony continues to develope this software, Digital editing and video are the future and vegas has its place!

Final CUT POO!

V

Robert Evans

more Robert Evans

I believe Coppola only agreed to do Godfather II, if Evans never visited the set.

Oh! Some Guy eh, BK!?!

Thanks for making my film knowledge wider,

Grazie

Hmmm! I guess I should have called this posting "Robert Evans"...

Anyway, Vegas 4 is not yet a FCP for pc because it would be very difficult to manage a long form project (like a feature film) in it. PC filmmakers are stuck with expensive Avid, an application that is already showing its age!

Vegas feels young and wild and has a lot of potential, but needs to get serious about its future.

This is tough love baby!

thekidstaysinthepicture@hotmail.com

Keep the HD in it. This is the next big thing and I can't wait. The only thing we need is for someone to tell us how many processors we need to view it on the timeline without it jumping around at 10 frames per second.

JJK

You make a very good point: Apple does far more marketing than SoFo ever did, hence FCP's place in the crowd of NLEs. Sony is a bigger fish, so aside from more development resources for Vegas, it would be logical to expect a bit more marketing support as well, especially when one considers Sony's position in the entertainment industry.

So far my biggest problem is that I have to exit vegas and restart to refresh the explorer after rendering so I can put it back in timeline.

Rebel44,
No you don't. there is a refresh in the explorer in Vegas. It is the icon that looks like a piece of paper with two arrows curved aroundd on it. right next to the up one folder icon.

JJKizak,

Currently, to edit HD in your PC you'll need something like this:

- A fast raid (200Mb/s - like Medea VideoRaid RTRX). Your current 7200rpm disks won't do it.
- A board like Pinnacle CineWave HD (which unfortunately only works for mac)
- Also, an AMD 64 system with lots of memory wouldn't hurt :)

As pc power increases, we'll all be able to HD with an out of the box Dell... Hang in there! I will...

The Kid Stays In The Pic!

Or select the explorer window and press F5.

attn thekid:

What are you typically shooting on currently, and in what format are you typically delivering projects now?

SonyEPM,

I own a Panasonic AG-DVX100P which I mostly use for short and feature films (mine and my friends). My day job is being an assistant editor in NYC which gives me free access to so called "professional post". I'm into writing/directing/editing.

I've been testdriving SF/Sony software for a few months now and I have to say that Vegas is a hell of an application with incredible capabilities but the lack of the aforementioned features (including the marketing factor) is discouraging for anyone looking to edit a feature film with it.

Please, do something groundbreaking with Vegas 5 and rub it in FCP's face!

See you at Sundance!

thekidstaysinthepicture@hotmail.com

>>Clips renaming and subclipping.
Vegas can do something similiar by naming regions in the trimmer
http://www.mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=159991

>>Multiple sequences.
You can't fully import one sequence into another. But you can set up a sequence and then have it render while you open another copy of Vegas and edit there. I use that all the time for title sequences. Then I drop the rendered sequence into the open project.

>>- A more robust timeline (Ooops! It is way to easy to accidentally delete a video or audio track…)
What do you actually mean by this? Isn't it incredibly easy to undelete a track, if you screw up?

>>>[SNIP]...is discouraging for anyone looking to edit a feature film with it.<<<

Many of the things you listed orginally wouldn't overall concern me, and I am editing feature films with VV. I posted on this many times but one of the things that is a bit unerving for me is not the lack of 'offline resolution' (VV will allow pretty much *any* resolution on the timeline aready) support, as you put it, but the lack of timcode/EDL support. In my tests I have found that VV only reads TC info from Mini-DV resolution files. I have tried "offline" resolution and the files play and work perfect, just the TC info is not read nor can you "recapture" from media other than said Mini-DV. The EDL support comes into play if you, say, want to edit "offline" HD material and than take it to an "online" session. The overwhelming majority that post around the forums all say you don't need to do that anyway - VV does HD just fine thank you. Their solutions have been to use 1 to 1 DV copies of the HD material and when finished editing just either use the DV material and output or swap out the DV files with HD res files and render to HD and for output to HD master use another system. However "editing" wise - you don't really need another system if you don't want to, and many don't.

Now for you want so cut anything that was shot on film and will go for a neg cut than VV is not for you..and SoFo support has said this in the past, right here in these forums. Would I like to see matchback available as an option for VV? Sure...but as just that..an option. I would love to see EDL and TC support built in however, because I am still a believer in it...and frankly to do any match back you would need those things.

Just as an aside I have been hearing the term "finishing tool" being tossed around a bit and I think that VV is a great tool for that. If you already have a locked picture you can certianly mix, color correct, create effects and so on with VV. Provided all you have to do is provide a rendered file it is great. yes HD is still an issue but I am getting strong indicators that some form of in/out support will be available in both software and hardware flavors...any word on the new Blue Fish Vegas driver support? (nudge nudge, wink wink)

For me, overall, working on the things that already exist will help greatly in the ability to edit features. Search for threads about 'black frames', 'insert edit', 'locking tracks', 'edl export', 'keeping sync' and 'nesting' to start getting an idea - and maybe some of these items are what you are already talking about. As I say - matchback ability would be nice...but as an add on feature, not built in. Thus far it seems a great majority of users do not make films, shot on film anyway, and have a need for any form of negative cut.

busterkeaton,

Thanks for the tips. Allow me to be more specific:

- Naming regions: (I already knew about this one) in 40 hours of master footage (documentary/feature projects) is not very practical.

- Multiple sequences: Different versions of the timeline in a single project. This is a Godsend when you work long form and want to have a safety net while experimenting.

- Robust timeline: It would be nice if Vegas asked/warned me before I wrongly delete an a/v track or anything in the media pool. Don't you think so?

- With regard of my SELFISH wishlist for Vegas 5: Many Panasonic AG-DVX100P users are aspiring filmmakers which will find those to be essential features. Can you probe me wrong? I don't think so...

Also dude, R. Evans is not my role model!

Best,

The kid stays in the pic

filmy et al:
at the moment Vegas lets me drop just about any form of 'moving image' onto the timeline and as far as I know it's the only thing that lets you do that. This is a huge strength to the product. I'd suggest if you tried to add full EDL support there's going to be a few very tricky issues that the software would need to address.
From my very limited knowledge of other systems its seems a lot of them can't ingest anything that doesn't have time code. That makes sense if the code is written around source TC. Obviously Vegas being so agnostic doesn't give a rats about TC which makes it pretty unique. It to my mind fills a gaping hole and there's still a lot of steam in the ol' girl filling that hole. Problem is the number of people in the industry who still don't know it exists let alone what it can do.

>>> Multiple sequences: Different versions of the timeline in a single project. This is a Godsend when you work long form and want to have a safety net while experimenting.

Yes, I know about nested sequences, with this and with the naming the regions I was just suggesting the nearest Vegas workaround. I agree that if Vegas fully implemented nested sequences it would be even more flexible

- Robust timeline: It would be nice if Vegas asked/warned me before I wrongly delete an a/v track or anything in the media pool. Don't you think so?

Actually I like it this way. I often work with multiple tracks at first and then consolidate tracks leaving many empty tracks which I then can delete quickly to keep my workspace clean. I often can notice immediately if I have deleted a track. So if they implemented this, I would like it be able to be turned off in preferences.

>>- With regard of my SELFISH wishlist for Vegas 5: Many Panasonic AG-DVX100P users are aspiring filmmakers which will find those to be essential features. Can you probe me wrong?

I won't even try ;)

>>>Also dude, R. Evans is not my role model!

I just noticed your email and manner of speech. I decided to tweak you because what you are talking about is not an identity problem, it's a perception problem. I think Sony knows exactly what Vegas can do and where it can go. I don't know how often you read the threads here, but Spot recently talked to the Sony folks and came away impressed with their plans and their knowledge of the industry, he hinted that they are positioning Vegas a for big push soon. As of Jan 1, they are changing how they distribute the Media Software titles. Remember the sale only went through, fairly recently. There are also hints that a new version may be coming soon (Vegas 4 went to beta in January 2003), so however valid your suggestions are, the featureset for Vegas 5 is probably pretty near locked.



Did you work on TKSITP?

filmy,

Offline Resolution is an option others NLE have for capturing your source footage not at DV25 which takes up 13Gb/h but at something like 3Gb/h for an offline edit. When done editing, you can batch capture just your sequence at DV25 saving a lot of disk space.

Also, check out the link below. AAF is promising to be the next generation EDL!

http://www.aafassociation.org/

Best,

The Kid Stays in the Picture

>>> filmy et al:
at the moment Vegas lets me drop just about any form of 'moving image' onto the timeline and as far as I know it's the only thing that lets you do that. This is a huge strength to the product. I'd suggest if you tried to add full EDL support there's going to be a few very tricky issues that the software would need to address.<<<

It does read almost anything you drop onto the timelime. As I pointed out you can use "offline resolution" files so to me that isn't any sort of issue. The TC issue as it relates to both EDL's *and* the way VV handles files with TC. The software does indeed already deal with TC but VV does not seem to read anything but minidv based files TC. Now - say you output a Vegas EDL and look at it. I it doesn't seem to relate back to the TC or tape numbers at all, yet from within a *.veg" file you can rebuild a project, which tells me that all the needed info is already being not only used, but kept. So in keeping with the concept of making VV more of an 'industry standard' or whatever - let the coders unleash the power of something that is already being used. Yes there are more than likely issues with being able to export CMX and such, on the audio side there is already software out there that allows you to convert a Vegas EDL into other audio formated EDL's, but what I had questioned before was how and why VV ignores TC info in anything except MiniDV files, and than only certian ones.

Example - capture the same footage in SCLive, VV and Premiere 6.5. In SCLive the TC info is read fine on all files. In Premiere all TC info is read fine. In VV only the SCLive and VV files are read fine. Now take the Premiere file or SCLive file and make an "offline" version of it. Again, Premiere and SCLive read the TC info perfect on this low res file. VV not only ignores it but also greys out the option to "recapture all offline media" So I saw 2 issues - first being the way VV reads TC and why it ignores it in Premiere files as well as all other files except MiniDV res. The second was why you can not recapture - or online if you will. My guess is "see number 1" for answer.

Anyhow the coding to see, and use, TC is already in there, it has to be or else you could never batch capture or "recapture all media" in VV. A lot of people, I think, really base things on the fact that "you can do it all" with VV yet when was the last time you looked at a "hollywood" production and saw only one name on it? Even low budgets have more than a crew of one. It is wrong for anyone to think that every single person who works on a project uses the exact same gear and the same holds true for Vegas users. I got an email from the person doing the effects for the feature I an cutting now - he wanted an EDL with the effects marked. Well, I can't do that because I am using Vegas and he isn't using Vegas. And in Vegas the EDL assumes all media is in the same folder, not on tapes. So, for now, I will dump out all effects shots onto tape and send that to him rather than just email him an EDL. (Ok the other option is to tell him "Tape 5, about 10 minutes in - take 4. Tape 18 about 3 minutes in - take 1"...and so on. As I am working on the film still, sending him the hard drives with media on it is pointless. Sending him only the raw effects media on a hard drive would work - but back to what my point is...one email with a simple compatable EDL is much easier. They have copies of all master tapes for a reason, not to have me send them CD-R's or hard drives)

>>>Offline Resolution is an option others NLE have for capturing your source footage not at DV25 which takes up 13Gb/h but at something like 3Gb/h for an offline edit. When done editing, you can batch capture just your sequence at DV25 saving a lot of disk space.<<<

?? err...you don't need to explain what offline is - and source footage does not have to be DV25 nor does it have to be less than DV25, so your answer is correct but also wrong. I was using "offline" at VHS quality to cut feature films that had been telecined to betacam and that would be dumped out to video workprints along with an EDL and sent over to a place that did the matchback and cut the 35mm camera negative. I also did offline from 3/4" video and dumped out EDL that would be taken over to online from Betacam to 1". Also did offline from VHS dub taken from a D-2 master that was then cut down for betacam for domestic DVD release. In all cases this process used Time Code and an EDL. (see below post for more on that)

In other words "offline" is not something that is exclusive to DV25, or even DV. As for saving disk space - LOL. I did sound mixes with the Studio 16 using Syquest removable 80mb drives. When I was cutting with D/Vision I was cutting features with a, then, 'massive' SCSI 9 gig drive. Before than I was cutting on uprights and flatbeds and we 'saved space' by printing circled takes only...something I still like to do when digitizing in the NLE world. But as so many like to point out: as the cost of hard drives is so cheap now, and it is easy to get over 100 gigs for less than that $100.00 (US), the concept of 'offline', especially to 'save space', is becoming null. Back when I was cutting with that 9 gig it cost 5 grand to pro-order it before they came out...for 5 grand today you can easly put together a raid config with 10 times the amount of drive space. (Example - A 1394b (Firewire 800) external enclosure for a Raid 5 config is about $1,100.00. You can find 7200 rpm, 200 gig drives with an 8MB buffer for about $110.00. So for 10,000 gigs in a Raid 5 firewire 800 config you would only be spending well under $2,000.00. Still less than the cost of that 9 gig. Really - is there a need to "offline" when working with DV only? Not at all)