Audio bzzzzz

tvgirl wrote on 8/24/2006, 8:53 AM
Hi, I'm having some kind of audio trouble -- there's a bzzz sound in everything I edit. I don't always hear it until somebody points it out, actually. But sometimes I do hear it -- big and bad.

The original audio does not appear have this bzzzz.

I am going through a trial and error process to determine the issue. I have used various machines to both tape and capture the video, so I'm not sure if it's the source. (Although some -- but not all -- of my tapes had a great deal of "video noise"). One of the only common links is that I edited the bzzzzz stuff in Vegas. I did some projects in Avid and they were clean. Could it be the way I'm exporting the stuff? Or could it be entirely something different?

Comments

ScottW wrote on 8/24/2006, 8:58 AM
So, how are you exporting the stuff?
bStro wrote on 8/24/2006, 9:07 AM
Is it a constant buzz or does it only happen at certain times and then go away? If it comes and goes, it could be a problem with illegal colors -- maybe in titles or overlays you added?

Rob
tvgirl wrote on 8/24/2006, 9:07 AM
I'm rendering it as an .avi, 29.97, 0.909 pixel, best video quality, 720 x 480, lower field first, 16/48 audio, stereo, PCM uncompressed, open DML compatible.
tvgirl wrote on 8/24/2006, 9:11 AM
There's no titles or overlays. But some of the stuff was done on a betacam sp on its last legs. The video in some cases would flash or there would be some kind of video interference. In fact, I couldn't capture one of the beta clips correctly at all.

I initially thought the camera issues might be the problem. But the problem happened even on some of my dv video.

Could it be color issues with the cameras?
tvgirl wrote on 8/24/2006, 9:31 AM
P.S. The buzz seems to be there through everything, but worse on some clips than others.
TorS wrote on 8/24/2006, 12:16 PM
I guess you have to roll back and forth through the stages and see if you can spot where the buzz appears.
Myself, I have had noise generated because un-needed channels on my soundcard were not muted.
Anyway I suppose Noise Reduction will be able to deal with the actual bzzz.
Tor
richard-courtney wrote on 8/24/2006, 12:39 PM
SP is analog if memory serves me. I had a bad monitor speaker
and could not hear low freq noise until it was played in the
auditorium system, too late. Try one of those sweep CDs.
(Note the warnings about output level on the instructions)

Most likely a bad cable or connection to the input of your capture
device. Good luck let us know what you find.
tvgirl wrote on 9/7/2006, 12:16 PM
Thanks for the info. It seems the noise is there throughout my sequence, and is there no matter where it's played. It even goes onto the tape during dubbing. Don't think it's the cable.

What is a sweep CD? And when you say Noise Reduction, is that a part of Vegas?
baysidebas wrote on 9/7/2006, 5:26 PM
You never know where it may come from, but Jerry Pournelle says "First thing, check the cables." And this really odd case proves the maxim:

http://forums.hardwareguys.com/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=5;t=4938
tvgirl wrote on 9/7/2006, 11:41 PM
The capture of the original video was done in a couple of different places (with different cables), which tells me it likely isn't the cables (at least for capture).

I think it did eventually wind up on my portable hard drive via USB 2, but there was never a bzzzz or hum on anything I used USB 2 with before.

I will say there was one particular bit of video that never could get captured right. The bzzzz sound was louder than on any other clip and the video would sometimes be very distorted (wavy).
tvgirl wrote on 9/7/2006, 11:54 PM
Again, though, can the way I'm rendering the sequence affect the audio, since the bzzzz seems to be consistent throughout the sequence, despite the fact that I'm using clips imported a couple of different ways, and video from a couple of different cameras? I don't seem to hear the buzz in the actual clips, with the exception of the clip I described earlier.

Serena wrote on 9/8/2006, 12:52 AM
Are you saying the noise is also on the camera tapes, or only on clips processed through Vegas? If the latter, is Vegas on a different computer ? -- presume it is. I would have a look at the audio with SoundForge and check out the noise waveform. Is it mains hum or from another source?
tvgirl wrote on 9/8/2006, 2:42 AM
I don't hear the noise on the original clips (with the exception of the one I mentioned).

I didn't originally hear it on my sequence either until another production guy pointed it out to me. I don't know if it's my hearing or what. It's very noticeable when the audio -- interviews and such -- is low and not quite as noticeable when the interviews and sound are louder. Of course, I hear it now since I'm listening for it. I don't notice it on the imported clips used in the sequence.

A friend of mine has SoundForge and tried to help me clean it up, but the buzz didn't really go away. He thinks there was some problem with the tape itself, although I don't know what that would be since I don't actually hear the sound on the original tapes.
tvgirl wrote on 9/8/2006, 2:44 AM
P.S. And it appears it's only clips edited in Vegas. (All my clips have been imported with Vegas. I edited some in Avid with no problem, which is why I was wondering if there was a problem in rendering or editing with Vegas. Maybe something I'm overlooking?)
TorS wrote on 9/8/2006, 3:27 AM
I have saved a few audio effects that appear every time I create a new audio track on the timeline. They always come on enabled, and sometimes I forget to unable them (until I start consentrating on the audio). Could you have some unwanted plug-ins accidentally on your effect chain? That would explain why the buzz comes on everything done in Vegas.
Tor
tvgirl wrote on 9/8/2006, 6:50 AM
I haven't used any audio effects. And the buzz was there before it went into SoundForge.
Serena wrote on 9/8/2006, 11:38 PM
In Soundforge did you notice whether the buzz waveform was sinusoidal with a frequency matching (or a higher harmonic) of mains frequency?
tvgirl wrote on 9/9/2006, 11:03 AM
A buddy of mine did the Soundforge stuff for me, so I don't know. If it ws showing up the way you describe, what would that mean? And could I see that stuff in my regular Vegas program?
Serena wrote on 9/9/2006, 5:06 PM
Identifying the waveform and frequency would help identify the source. I expect the noise to be mains pickup in the recording or other noise (eg. RF from radio sources) that was recorded at a low level. If you did things like normalise the audio in editing then such pickup may become audible. If it's being generated in your computer (and hence apparently by Vegas) you should be able to reproduce this by starting with a clean audio track and working it as you did with your tapes. Vegas does show waveform if you expand the timeline; pick a quite spot and have a look.
tvgirl wrote on 9/10/2006, 8:22 AM
Thanks. So are you saying the mains pickup is there as the audio is recording? And a photographer might not hear that at the time? How do you prevent that?

And am I not hearing it on the tape because it's such a low frequency?

And how do I actually fix the problem? Is Noise Reduction the way to go, or the equalizers in Vegas, or something else?
tvgirl wrote on 9/10/2006, 3:10 PM
I hae tried re-capturing some stuff and the buzz is still there -- through everything. The capture went from the tape deck (via RCA cables) through a PYRO A/V Link converter, then firewire from the converter to my laptop. The buzz is in the clip even when I send it to a portable hard drive.

I opened the clips in Vegas nothing registers at all in the audio waveform.

Still looking for what's causing the problem. Any ideas?
Serena wrote on 9/10/2006, 6:08 PM
I think you're telling me that the noise is on the tapes. In Vegas select "normalise" to bring the audio up. Not great for actually looking at waveform, which is the reason I mentioned SoundForge. A CRO would be the obvious way to check this, but I'm assuming that's not available.

You can hear 50/60 Hz quite well, but could be lost if your monitoring system has a higher threshhold. Often mains pickup is heard at the first harmonic (2xmains-freq), which should be easily heard. Wind the gain right up and listen without playing. If it is being generated in your computer (Vegas or other source) you should be able to reproduce this without using the original tape source.
epirb wrote on 9/10/2006, 6:14 PM
Any chance you can post a short .wav file for us to listen to?
tvgirl wrote on 9/10/2006, 7:28 PM
I'll see what I can do about posting a file.

The buzz sound is not on the original tape.