Thanks Laurence. . .
Interesting. . . explain please...

Until that time... Earl J.

Simplest way to get things lined up is to use Ctl+Drag rather than I assume the volocity envelope that you're using.

There's really a number of issues to consider here and from the information I'm not exactly certain what you've done.

Which Workprinter? Did you capture discrete frames or did you run the 8mm at 24fps. If so how did you capture that.

When you recorded the audio what speed was the film being run at?
If the film was being played out at other than it's native fps then the audio will need pitch shifting apart from anything else.

Bob.

I don't think you are going to get there using the velocity envelope because the projector rate of 24fps is nominal, and most could be adjusted over a wide range + or - from the 18 or 24fps switch settings.

The WorkPrinters are frame accurate - one frame of film for each frame of video. Sounds like 3:2 pull down is needed to get the equivalent action speed of the 24fps film. (assuming that the film was really recorded at 24fps)

Once this has been done, you should need very little adjustment of the "real-time" audio using CTL-Drag as farss recommends.

Hello everyone,
so, ctrl-drag will will work on both at the same time (video and audio). . . aha...
then expand the frame by frame video to the same length as the projector video/audio tracks...

Sounds simple enough. . .

Thanks for all the input everyone...

Until that time... Earl J.

1. Set the Vegas Project Properties to 23.976 (IVTC Film).

2. Put your Workprinter footage on the top video track. Put your video with sound footage below that.

Vegas will delete (decimate) frames or duplicate frames to make any video fit the project frame rate. The key thing is that if a video is designed to play for one minute, Vegas will ensure that it plays for one minute on the Vegas timeline. Thus, if you have set the header fps in the Workprinter video to 23.976 (not 24 fps) using the capture app that Roger's friend sells for Workprinter users then you should find that both the Workprinter video and the video with sound should be very close to the same length. (If it isn't set for 23.976, you can set the header using the old AVI Frame Rate (AVIFrate) utility.

3. Find a scene change as near to the beginning of the Workprinter video as possible. Cut the event at this point. Then, line up the same exact frame on the audio reference video, and cut this as well, making sure to cut the audio as well as the video. Delete all events prior to these cuts. Line up the two video events and the audio event so they are all snapped at the same location.

4. Go to the end of the video, and then scrub backwards to a scene change. Cut the Workprinter video at this point.

5. Now, solo the video that has the audio, and find the scene change near the end that matches where you just cut. Cut the video (and audio) at this point. Delete the two video and one audio event to the right of the places you just cut.

6. Now, press and hold the Ctrl key, and drag the right edge of the video/audio pair until it snaps to the Workprinter video. You have now adjusted the sound so that it matches the Workprinter video, and you haven't screwed around with the Workprinter video at all.

When finished, drag the right edge of the main Workprinter event to the right until it gets to the end, and do the same with the left edge. Then repeat this for the audio. Do NOT press and hold the Ctrl key while extending the events because you don't want to make any changes to playback speed, and you certainly don't want to mess with the perfect Workprinter video -- you want each frame to playback without having Vegas either drop or repeat frames.

You then encode for DVD (if that is your final output) using the MPEG-2 DVD Architect 24p NTSC video stream template. Despite the incorrect labeling, this template encodes at 23.976. Your DVD will contain the pristine, individual Workprinter frames. If played on a system that cannot display "24p" natively, your DVD player will add the pulldown needed to display at 29.97.

Finally, you might want to check your sound sync before performing all the above, and adjust if necessary.

The reason for cutting the events is that when you stretch events, if you don't start from a point where both events are perfectly in sync at frame one (the first frame of the event), then the act of stretching will change all the relationships before the sync point. By cutting, then syncing, and then later extending the two ends of the events, you ensure perfect sync throughout.

Hello John,
thank you very much. . .
I'll give it a shot when I get home this evening; the sequence might become clearer once I begin to follow along...

Basically, 1 - cut all the video and audio to start at the same point; 2 - cut the WP video to the length I want; 3 - cut the audio and other video tracks to a spot early on to ensure synch with the WP video; 4 - restore the other audio and video using the drag method without the Ctrl-key to bring it back to the same length as the WP video . . . which ensures the video (and accompanying audio) do not lose synch from the beginning without losing any frames or any of the audio. Is that the gist of things?
I think you want to cut the WP video to some point near the beginning and restore that video track as well. . . so both video tracks (with the accompanying audio) restore at the same rate and maintain synch... most excellent.
* * *
I do have Adobe Audition to alter the pitch of the audio without changing the duration... I just use it as the default audio editing tool - so I open it right from Vegas, alter the pitch, and when I close Audition, it returns to the timeline in Vegas with the pitch altered. Those Vegas guys are so smart...
* * *
Yes, I am putting it all on DVD. Those instructions will come in handy as well...

Thanks again.

Until that time. . . Earl J.

I do have Adobe Audition to alter the pitch of the audio without changing the duration... No need for that extra step: Vegas does this for you. You can either have it change the pitch when the duration is changed, or keep the pitch fixed. The default behavior when you Ctrl-Drag to change the playback speed is to keep the pitch fixed. If you right-click on the audio event after you've done this, you'll see the settings that have been applied. You can play around with the "stretch attributes" if you aren't satisfied with the quality of the altered sound.

Also, just to be clear, you want to line up your sound with the workprinter video as I described. After you've done that, I recommend you delete the video you captured with the sound, since you won't need that. Then, select the Workprinter video and the sound, and press "G" to group them together. Then, go ahead and edit, just like you would any other project, to trim scenes, put things in the correct order, add titles, etc.

If any of what I wrote doesn't make sense, I can post a quick tutorial.

Hello John,
I was thinking about posting a tutorial myself - once I master it. . .
It is a handy tool in the toolbox... others would probably be able to modify it for other purposes as well. . .

As I think about it, you cut from both ends to create a short piece that can be synched... then eliminate the extra video; group what remains; and pull them in both directions until the entire video and sound is restored...

Please do a tutorial - and let us have the link... much appreciated...
You're a wizard, no doubt... thank you very much...

Until that time... Earl J.

This is very basic stuff so I didn't think it worth doing a real tutorial. So, I just pointed the camera at the screen and added a few titles. It goes by pretty fast, so just press the pause button (or put it on the timeline).

Crude Tutorial

Right-click and Save As.

Great Tutorial John. Question: If you were holding the camera, who was editing? Nice trick that!

Oh, and if anybody, like me hadn't, the first idea what was/is a Workprinter, I just found one! - http://www.moviestuff.tv/wp_xp.htmlNice piece of kit this . . [/link]

Grazie

Most excellent, John...
at the point where the video tutorial ended, we just then drag without ctrl the left edge to the beginning and the right edge out to the end... just as I suspected...

Most excellent. . .

Thanks for taking the time to create this for us... it is pretty basic video functioning, no doubt... but put to use for a more advanced technique for synching video and audio from different sources - in my mind anyhow...

Thank you very much...

Until that time... Earl J.

Hello Grazie,
I apologize for not providing the link myself... it is a popular device, and I thought every videographer would be familiar with Roger and his movie stuff. . .
it is a very good method for capturing films. . . the timing is, of course, critical in the transfer... howsomever, they just released a new device to take the guesswork out of that step as well...

http://www.moviestuff.tv/velocity_box.html

It requires a good video capture card and the software... but I believe the elimination of the hassle of adjusting the WorkPrinter cam settings are well worth the cost... especially if you share the device with a partner and are using different cameras...

We're tickled with the performance and Roger is a great help with working through problems and providing assistance to everyone who purchases one of his devices...

Until that time... Earl J.

I transferred super 8 sound with the Workprinter XP. I had a super 8 sound projector to transfer the audio. To sync the audio and video I recorded a tone on a short length of super 8 sound film. I spliced one frame from this tone film at the beginning and end of each film to be transferred. I now have a visual sync point at both ends of the video and audio track. I applied the necessary pulldown to the video, lined up the visual audio sync points (audio blip and sync frame) at the beginning of the video and ctrl drag the end until the audio sync points to match at the end.

Ed