Audio quality and syncing

mrmike wrote on 12/29/2003, 10:42 AM
The quality of the audio I get from my digital camcorder is marginal at best. I have a small project studio and as such own a couple of very nice condenser mics.

How does one go about recording quality audio and syncing it to the video?

Is it recorded on a separate device and synced together. (And if that's the case, how is it synced?)

Or is it recorded on the tape using a good mic that is plugged into the mic jack on the camera.

Is syncing audio in some respects the same as syncing a MIDI sequencer to a tape machine? I understand that process having done it a million times.

Thanks.

Comments

tbethel wrote on 12/29/2003, 12:04 PM
Normally you need timecode and blackburst to both the camera and what ever you are using to record the audio. This keeps everything in "sync" If you are going to record audio seperately plan to use some digital medium like a DAT recorder so there is no drift in the sound. You can use a clap board (that is what they are designed for) to sync up the start of your audio and the start of the picture so you can go back and sync them up later in your Vegas program.

If you can't get a DAT recorder that does time code for recording don't worry because every DAT recorder uses a form of time code when it records the sound it just takes a time coded cabable DAT to show it on playback. Most times if you use digital to record the sound will NOT drift and if you use a clap stick at the beginning of each piece of recorded audio you should be able to sync them up in Vegas. If you don't have a clap board you can make one with two pieces of wood and a hinge.

Hope this helps if you need more info just ask.
MUTTLEY wrote on 12/29/2003, 1:05 PM
I know nothing about recording to a DAT machine, but can you capture from it via firewire ? Think I would love this as opposed to onboard sound or having XLR wires sticking out of my XL1.

- Ray

www.undergroundplanet.com

farss wrote on 12/29/2003, 1:57 PM
You could use the M-Audio Firewire 410, connects via 1394 to turn your PC or laptop into a hard disk recorder. Bring resulting soundfile into Vegas on a new track, sync them up and you're away.

I'd still suggest recording the audio on the camera as well, makes it real easy to check the sync between the two tracks.
MUTTLEY wrote on 12/30/2003, 1:55 AM
Actually I meant for on location stuff. While I'm getting more confidant in my video abilities, I don't know jack about sound. Honestly, as I am quite naive in this regard I have also had a great deal of trepanation delving into learning about it.

It seems like recording with a boom straight to a DAT on location would be the method. Ya don't have cables running from your cam, or anything else bogging you down as a camera guy. So does anyone do this ? Ambient noise is killing me and NR either isnt doing the trick or I'm just using it wrong. I'd like some advice about using a DAT ( if advisable ), and if there are portable ones that can be imported via firewire or USB 2.0.

- Ray

farss wrote on 12/30/2003, 2:21 AM
There's a number of ways to go.
Here's a radical idea, connect Senheisser transmitter into shotgun, plug receiver into camera, no wires anywhere.
For most things the camera will do a half decent job of recording audio, its technically a bit better than CD quality. Problem is the mics are pretty poor and the camera itself adds noise due to the motors driveing the tape, the heads, the zoom and the focus.

You could look at a HD audio recorder, I think both Marantz and Tascam have one, avoids worrying about tape and you can download in faster than realtime. Add to that a decent mic like the 416, a furry sox for it, a pole and you could buy another camera.

Depending on what you shoot wireless lapel mics can be very good also, excellent for weddings and the like, Mr Boomtastic is not usually welcome at weddings!
sek0910 wrote on 12/30/2003, 5:43 AM
The Iriver iHP-100 - 10GB is a small hard drive portable music player/recorder (.wav/mp3,etc) that has a USB 2 connection and line-in (for mixer). Don't know whether the "price is right" as it lists for $349. This would record digitally and allow transfer of standard wave or mp3 files to your computer via USB2. Guess they will come down in price eventually.
Catwell wrote on 12/30/2003, 2:03 PM
I use an Alesis MasterLink HD recorder. I feed mics (AT3035, AKG 451 ck22) into mackie mixer and from there to both the MasterLink and the Camera. I record at 48 KHz so the signals should match. The reality is that sync varies by about 3 frames over 10 minutes. An error of about .017%. I expect that the 48KHZ in the camera varies slightly from the 48KHz in the recorder. I find it easy to match the sync by zooming in on the timeline and comparing sound tracks. Since I am usually recording recitals I cannot interrupt with a clapboard. It takes two people to do this well one on the camera and another at the mixer and HD recorder.
farss wrote on 12/30/2003, 2:17 PM
I've found that clappers aren't that accurate, well that is if you're really uptight about sync. I tried syncing two camera using one clapper board but the clapper closes in about one frame.

Using the audio peak matching is very accurate. Also if you play the two tracks back together and the audio is much the same, as you get them closer to sync you start to hear phasing, as you slide them ever so little it'll disappear and then the sync is spot on
Spot|DSE wrote on 12/30/2003, 2:36 PM
Some suggestions:
Always record audio to the camera, whether from a console, from a wireless mic or worst case...the camera mic.
A good kit consists of lavs if you are doing weddings, corporate gigs, or lectures. A run and gun can use a boom or a shotgun mic mounted on cam, preferably off cam but wired to cam. Use lo impedance for anything longer than 10 feet of cable run. If you get a wireless, use a good one.
Recording to MP3 at 192 works great. Recording to Minidisk or any other digital source will work well.
The alesis system is great, if you don't mind hauling gear. I frequently record straight into my laptop for audio, using an Echo Indigo Cardbus card. 199.00 retail, 24/96 audio with 2 discrete inputs, 8 virtual outputs.
As Farss suggests, syncing on a peak is very easy. While genlock is great, it's being used less and less for small shoots.
riredale wrote on 12/30/2003, 2:44 PM
Many people are sold on Minidisk. They are cheap, reliable, and deliver remarkably clean audio (think MP3 running at 256Kb/sec). I bought a cheap Sharp unit on eBay for $60 and it works great.

Syncing with the video is a piece of cake if you record camcorder audio also. Just line up the peaks.