Automatic Continuous Background Pre-Render is HERE, SF!

wcoxe1 wrote on 8/23/2002, 8:30 PM

Several have hinted at it, I found one reference to it back the forum in July 1999, but SF lost out.

From beginner (Apple iMovie 2), to DV7, Toaster 2, and now Pinnacle Edition, they ALL have Automatic Continuous Background Pre-Rendering of some sort.

How many of you would like to have this feature, which would cut anywhere from hours to days off final render time of your projects? Something which would render pieces as you went along, and then picked up those that were rendered, add the few remaining pieces, and produce a finished product in No Time?

Lets hear it from everybody. What say you!

How should it be implemented (a few free ideas for SF to ponder)? Think on it, then expound.

Comments

Cheesehole wrote on 8/23/2002, 9:12 PM

>>>Lets hear it from everybody. What say you!

I like the idea of hilighting a loop region and sending it for a background render while I keep editing. this would be a good substitute for Tools | Selectively Pre-render and would better utilize the second CPU in a dual system.

sonicboom wrote on 8/23/2002, 9:22 PM

i like to make veg files and then master one big veg file when i am finished
this way i only render once----to best quality
just my 2 cents
i'm just happy i fixed my audio problem--hehe
:)
sb

HPV wrote on 8/23/2002, 10:49 PM

As long as you can turn it off. Otherwise it's will go off rendering stuff I may go back and change. Talk about fragmented hard drives.
It would also be cool if Vegas was smart enough to use the 10 sec. rendered sections when you build a final avi DV file.
Sound Forge just got background rendering. Looks to me that Sound Forge is now based on Vegas/Acid code. It used to be destructive, now it's non-destructive.
Something else Edition offers that would be awesome is the ability to prerender something and have it hold if you move the clip horz. or vertically on the timeline.

Craig H.

gbrgn wrote on 8/24/2002, 12:34 AM

Hi all,

Agree with cheeshole! :) btw, I've already sent this suggestion a few days ago to sofo. Hope they read it and implement it.

There was a discussion on this a few weeks ago . http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=116708&Page=12

wcoxe1 wrote on 8/24/2002, 11:00 PM

Now we are getting somewhere. Any more ideas. ALL of the above are doable in ONE product, with software settings.

Silver & Digital wrote on 8/25/2002, 6:18 PM

I would love this feature!

BillyBoy wrote on 8/25/2002, 10:42 PM

I would think not a very practical idea. If you go back and forth from scene to scene making last minute changes as I do. All the effort rendering would be wasted if you change a single thing as the present render engine is configured, AFAIK.

Silver & Digital wrote on 8/25/2002, 11:26 PM

>would think not a very practical idea. If you go back and forth from scene to scene making last minute changes as I do. All the effort rendering would be wasted if you change a single thing as the present render engine is configured, AFAIK.

Sorry BillyBoyI disagree, as a software developer, The system would not need to blindly render everything, if it only (pre-rendered) rendered in the background what was needed, then tracking and re-rendering of any changed items. So when it came to making a final rendered product it would only be a matter of grabbing a combination of pre-rendered and original unmodified footage and splicing them together. This would mean that a finished rendered product would only take a fraction of the time to produce.

wcoxe1 wrote on 8/26/2002, 8:26 AM

That is exactly the idea. As it is now, you can Print to DV Tape and it will render in 300 frame segments everything that needs it. If you ever change on of those segments, it will do it again, but then skip to the next area that needs it. Jumping around doing last minute changes is EXACTLY what I do now, and Print to DV Tape (while on break, lunch, or over night) saves me a TON of time. Automatic Continuous Background Pre-Render would save even more, since I wouldn't need to stop, ever, to tell it to prerender.

wazungu wrote on 8/26/2002, 11:28 AM

Here's my original post from the other thread mentioned below:
"...distributed processing is definitely a cool idea--usually seen in high-end 3d modeling software (not really a consumer/prosumer feature) by guys who need to render, say, feature-length movies in 3D. BTW, 3D takes a *lot* longer than even the most complicated video projects to render, so the feature is much more needed in that realm. Not that we couldn't use it, but it may be seen as less of a need by SF engineering.
I read about another high-end video program (purple maybe?) that does "background rendering", but this was different--it used idle CPU cycles to render the project you're working on as you were working. I mean, half the time we're just thinking about what to do next, scrolling, browsing menus, etc. It would require a massively multithreaded app*, but I can see how that would be a great advantage. One thing the article I was reading said was that by creating a software-only solution (like VV), faster CPU's would only make the editing process faster; I think software-only NLE's will eventually dominate for this reason."
* I recall reading that BeOS apps were written with this in mind; most apps are not this fully multithreaded within themselves, or don't seem to be these days. Am I wrong? Would this make it hard for the VV codebase?

A few other thoughts:
* One complaint I hear about this potential is, "if I want to change something globally while it's background-rendering, it will nullify all the pre-rendered stuff". Doesn't this happen already? I think we're all so used to 'saving' the CPU for the 'important' stuff, that it's hard mentally to allow the computer to do work that might be tossed. Bg rendering could be a great overall timesaver, but it can't prevent us from making editing choices that would destroy those gains.
* HPV sez:
"Something else Edition offers that would be awesome is the ability to prerender something and have it hold if you move the clip horz. or vertically on the timeline."
I think I read somewhere that Final Cut Pro 3 has something like this ability; maybe it was AE 5.5? FCP was my first choice originally, but, since I was picking hardware and software, I went with Vegas: twice as cheap for fast PC hardware and $420 vs $999!
* I like cheesehole's idea of 'selective background render' via a selection/region. That would be great!

Cheesehole wrote on 8/26/2002, 11:50 AM

>>>* I like cheesehole's idea of 'selective background render' via a selection/region. That would be great!

this seems like the most do-able in the short term and it would directly benefit my work. I find myself pre-rendering short loops or looping playback until the preview is smooth quite often. sure would be nice to not have to wait! (unfortunately it wasn't my idea... someone suggested this a few days ago)

The fully automated background render will come I'm sure... as CPU's get more powerful. they'll figure out how to get around the technical details. the concept is the important part and it's definitely a compelling one. I love to see my software really working FOR me. offloading thought processes to the software is key (like getting a Tivo which offloads all thought of television from my brain to a device). let the CPU waste its time as long as it doesn't affect my editing experience negatively.

another kind of cool feature is automatic on-the-fly preview quality adjustments. this concept allows you to see a constant framerate in the preview window no matter how many effects are enabled. the NLE software looks ahead and anticipates how much to degrade the preview quality to maintain a constant frame rate. Avid DV Express 3.5 is supposed to do that. sounds pretty cool to me! (of course now we're talking $300 vs $1500 ;)

John_Beech wrote on 8/26/2002, 2:53 PM

Ben, is there any way from this forum to message you privately? I didn't find a way to just e-mail you, but perhaps my stupidity is getting in the way. John

Chienworks wrote on 8/26/2002, 3:04 PM

jbeech: unless someone has listed their eMail address in their account settings, the best you can do is say "Hey Ben! Please drop me a line at kellythecutelittleinsectoidbug@chainsawbodyart.com so i can ask you something privately."

Of course, you should probably put your own eMail address in the message ;)

Cheesehole wrote on 8/28/2002, 5:31 AM

oh yeah... you used to be able to see people's emails, but I guess that is changed to help avoid unwanted solicitation. you can email me at ben_NO_ADS_@orona.com though! just remove the _NO_ADS_ and use just plain ben.

Chienworks wrote on 8/28/2002, 3:51 PM

Oddly enough, i've posted that kellythecutelittleinsectoidbug@chainsawbodyart.com eMail address in several forums and many websites. Even though it's a perfectly valid address, to date it has never received a single spam. Hmmm. Are spammers afraid of it? Maybe they just reject long addresses. Dunno. My more "normal" addresses get spam by the thousands. Grrrrrrrrr. TOASTEDspam.com