AVCHD bug

blink3times wrote on 4/26/2008, 5:27 AM

I posted this in another thread but decided that it important enough to have a thread of its own.
I believe there is a problem with Vegas's ability to read through various avchd containers. As a result, there will be times where the audio portion of a m2ts file will show up on the timeline, but the video won't.

I have played with this for a while now and have found that it happens on different machines, in different operating environments, with different people, and different file sources.

I can't exactly say that the file(s) themselves are perfect (I have not the abilities to delve that deep) but what I can offer is that these files function quite normally in all respects in Ulead video Studio, Ulead MF6, Pinnacle Studio, and any player that will handle m2ts files.

There is a gentleman on the AVS forum that has nicely posted one of these files that fail in Vegas (or at least it fails on my 2 machines and his). It would be nice if a few could download this and see what they in turn get.

If this is indeed a bug or a weakness, then it would be nice to get it cleaned up and not passed on to future versions.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13726330&postcount=117

Comments

LJA wrote on 4/26/2008, 12:39 PM

m2ts created by Vegas load OK. This one gives me audio only.

Darth A Booey wrote on 4/26/2008, 1:13 PM

Do we really need another thread discussing the same issue? Wouldn't it make more sense to keep the discussion in the existing thread?

As I pointed out in the other thread where blink posted this link, the file in question is not from the AVS poster's camera. It's from some Japanese website. Every clip from my camera has worked perfectly in Vegas.

Konrad wrote on 4/26/2008, 1:35 PM

OMG There is a clip on the internet that has a bug in it. Do camcorders even write m2ts files to the internal HDD or Card?

When you can show that Vegas has a problem ingesting AHCHD from the Camera/Memory Card then I'll care. Until then this is just a storm in a Tea cup.

dcrandall wrote on 4/26/2008, 1:48 PM

Agreed! .... Unless Vegas has a problem ingesting AVCHD clips straight from a camcorder or it's Memory card, then I don't see anything to get alarmed or up-in-arms about. (I have a Canon HF10 and I have no problems using it's video clips within Vegas)

-Dan

blink3times wrote on 4/26/2008, 2:13 PM

"Unless Vegas has a problem ingesting AVCHD clips straight from a camcorder or it's Memory card,"

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=581466

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=587330&Replies=52

blink3times wrote on 4/26/2008, 2:18 PM

"m2ts created by Vegas load OK. This one gives me audio only."

I've played around with this a fair bit now and I have had the odd one generated directly by Vegas fail... not many, but it has happend, and it fails the same way... audio but no video.

Konrad wrote on 4/26/2008, 7:16 PM

For those who are having problems ingesting I see no reference to getting SCS support in the loop. I also see Spot trying to help saying it may be a codec issue. I don't see technical details of the exact codec that is failing when ingesting from the Camera. Is this trying to make Vegas look bad or an attempt to solve a problem. If you're trying to solve a problem then you need to provide all the technical details. Make, Model and Firmware of the Camera you are ingesting from and the exact codec that Vegas is using. I'm not a Vegas expert but I did work for 5 years in premier support for Microsoft.

I know from talking with Cineform at NAB they suggested the CORE AVC decoder. VASST also has a standalone AVC tool coming out.

blink3times wrote on 4/26/2008, 8:39 PM

". Is this trying to make Vegas look bad or an attempt to solve a problem."

Huh??

The object of this has NOTHING to do with trying to make Vegas look bad. The object here is to see if there is a valid problem that need s work.

Vegas is a great program.... one of the best in my book and I would like to see it stay that way. Criticism of Vegas from my part has never been to put it down, but rather to ensure that it gets even better.

Spot has tried to assist and I hope he offers more assistance. He did suggest a codec problem and that avenue has been tested and has turned out to likely not be the problem, or at least I can't see it as such in the tests that I have run so far

I do hope this clears any misunderstanding.

LSHorwitz wrote on 4/27/2008, 5:23 PM

I am one of the people who has been unable to view / preview files from the Canon HF10 / HF100 in Vegas 8 Pro, and I will disagree with the prior comment that this problem does not exist. Perhaps it does not exist for some users, but it most ceretainly exists for others. Such is the nature of a bug which has yet to be properly resolved by the software developer, in this case Sony.

I too am entirely able to load, edit, preview, and do everything properly when using the very same files in Ulead Movie Factory 6, Nero Ultimate version 8, and other players of h.264 files like CoreAVC player, VLC, etc.

This is a Sony problem and should be fixed by Sony. I, for one, am glad to see this thread appear. Perhaps there will be a fix eventually from Sony as a result.

Larry

Darth A Booey wrote on 4/27/2008, 5:43 PM

I posted this in the other thread devoted to this topic, but since we're scattering the discussion over multiple threads, I'll post it here too:

Larry -

FWIW, I have a Canon HF100 (identical camera except mine doesn't have the 16GB of internal Flash memory) and have had no issues with editing the footage in 8.0b. Granted, I have mostly been using proxy files out of convenience (I don't have the fastest PC in the world) but I've been able to scrub through and/or playback the .m2ts files on the timeline. They're choppy, but they play.

I don't know if this makes a difference or not, but how are you getting your footage to your PC? Are you dragging the files directly off the card (or internal memory) or are you using the software that came with the camera (Imagemixer 3 SE?)

blink3times wrote on 4/27/2008, 8:41 PM

"but I've been able to scrub through and/or playback the .m2ts files on the timeline."

Yes... and I'm able to do that too with most files. So in spite of the "bug" label I think I'm inclined to believe as 4eyes labeled it and that is more of a technical error. I believe Vegas has a slight flaw in the system that reads and or opens the containers thereby making it slightly flaky when dragged to the time line. It's clear that there is nothing wrong with the files since other programs can easily handle them as normal, (and that includes the above Japanese test clip). It's also clear that Vegas initially the file headers and such correctly since it allows the import of the file to start with. The trouble however begins when you you try and drag it to the time line.

I do apologize for spreading this over multiple threads, but I wanted a clear title so that when somebody searches for the issue, this thread will undoubtedly pop up, (hence the "bug" label), because I have a feeling there will be more of this from others.

LSHorwitz wrote on 4/27/2008, 9:03 PM

Darth A Booey wrote on 4/27/2008, 9:20 PM

I've tried importing from the camera as well as dragging files off of the memory card. The sample files I have downloaded from other HF10/100 users behave the same way. All load into Ulead and Nero directly for editing and preview. In Vegas, they open and show a video scene as an Explorer / media file icon when imported but do not display any video when dragged into the timeline. Audio is fine.

I import the files off of the SDHC card using the software supplied with the camera (PIXELA ImageMixer SE) and have not had a single problem yet. If you haven't already, please try this method and see if it solves the problem.

It is pretty weird that files from other users would behave that way. Did the people you got the clips from report issues or were the files working for them?

LSHorwitz wrote on 4/28/2008, 5:42 AM

Darth,

Using Imagemixer does not fix the Vegas bug. Other programs import and view the files properly with or without Canon's program, so I continue to point the finger at Sony.

Files from other Canon users came from samples on the Internet and I have no information about their editing experiences. No idea if they use Vegas at all, for example.

Larry

Darth A Booey wrote on 4/28/2008, 7:00 AM

Using Imagemixer does not fix the Vegas bug. Other programs import and view the files properly with or without Canon's program, so I continue to point the finger at Sony.

Very odd. Since I can't reproduce the problem (except with the clip that we know absolutely nothing about from the Japanese site,) there's not much more I can really suggest. If you haven't already, I would highly recommend contacting SCS's technical support and making them aware of your situation so that they can begin looking into the matter. I would also recommend taking Spot/DSE up on his offer: "LS Horowitz, if you want to privately mail me, I'd be happy to try to assist you further outside this forum. Conversely, head on over to the CreativeCOW, DMN, or DVinfo.net where this sort of silliness isn't permitted."

LSHorwitz wrote on 4/28/2008, 8:13 AM

Darth,

Thanks very much for your reply. I did indeed contact Spot/DSE immediately after his earlier reply, and he was kind enough to lead me to an excellent solution involving transcoding the Avchd which then previews and edits properly in Vegas. Although it adds an extra step, it is a totally workable method which I am using with great success.

Larry

warriorking wrote on 4/28/2008, 9:50 AM

No problems dragging AVCHD files from my Canon HG10 into vegas on my end, Video as well as audio show fine in the time line, I do not use the included Corel software to transfer the footage, I just drag and drop....Glad your problem has at least been solved....

Darth A Booey wrote on 4/30/2008, 8:53 AM

I did indeed contact Spot/DSE immediately after his earlier reply, and he was kind enough to lead me to an excellent solution involving transcoding the Avchd which then previews and edits properly in Vegas. Although it adds an extra step, it is a totally workable method which I am using with great success.

Out of curiosity, what did he show you? You never know when you're going to need a workaround...

Wm wrote on 6/9/2008, 6:01 PM

Yes, PLEASE tell us how. I have m2ts content provided by a studio (yes, legally), which I desperately need to edit, and Vegas shows no video with any of it.

William

UlfLaursen wrote on 6/9/2008, 9:15 PM

Hi William

You could try the AVCHD converter from VASST, where Spot is:

http://www.vasst.com/product.aspx?id=bf3e2d5a-7c2e-4969-a8dd-7cee2cefba30

It's only $49 and pretty fast to convert.

/Ulf

Wm wrote on 6/10/2008, 9:57 AM

Can anyone confirm that this works? I don't mind spending $49, but the so-called trial version is broken. It claims to to 3 seconds, but either produces no file or an empty file. 3 seconds? Sorry, but that seems pretty lame to me. 30 seconds would make more sense for a trial version.

William

Spot|DSE wrote on 6/10/2008, 11:58 AM

It works if you're using camera-originated files. Files generated by an NLE or shareware converter may not (and usually doesn't) write clean header files.

Wm wrote on 6/10/2008, 12:59 PM

Well, yes, it does work, and for non-camera originated files generated by TSremux...

But, there is a bug if you change the destination folder. I was tearing my hair out (what little I have left) because AVDHD was running but there was no output file! After many tries and false clues, finally figured out that when I change the output folder, the change was not taking effect until I stopped and restarted the program. Meanwhile it was apparently stuffing the file in the previously selected folder, which of course I was not looking at... Should be easy enough to fix this.

William