AVCHD CLIP SPANNING WITH VEGAS?

clearvu wrote on 6/15/2011, 3:28 PM
I have recently purchased the Canon XA-10 camcorder which I have found out creates individual files at the 2 gig mark. In my research I have also found that other manufacturers do the same thing when a lenghty recording is made. In my case I videod straight for 1 hour and have about 4 clips, each 2 gig in size. This is not a problem in itself, but I notice that when I import, for example, clip A and B into Vegas that part of the end of clip A is missing and the beginning of clip B.

Apparently, the software has to support "clip spanning". This is what Canon has told me after investigating this further. They've explained that "clip spanning" is a technique used so that the end of clip A is repeated at the beginning of clip B. The idea is to drop them into a video editing program so that they overlap.

Is there a setting on Vegas that allows importing clips that use "clip spanning"? The Canon rep told me that any software video editor that does NOT support "clip spanning" will tamper with the files in some way. What Vegas is doing to the files is one of the type of problems that will occur. I've searched the Sony forums and find nothing about this, but it seems to be discussed with other types of software.

Appreciate someone's help on this because I really need to record long clips and can not have Vegas snip off part of it.

Comments

John_Cline wrote on 6/15/2011, 4:40 PM
Does Canon not have some sort of stand-alone file import utility that will seamlessly join the clips? With my Sony NX5, it has the "Sony Content Management Utility" software that imports the separate clips and joins them into one seamless file.

I have no experience with Canon products but I notice that they include their "Pixela Transfer Utility Disc" with your camera, perhaps this is what you need to use to import your files instead of just getting them directly from the SD cards.
clearvu wrote on 6/15/2011, 4:47 PM
Nothing. There is only a transfer utility to get the files from the camera to the computer.

However, joining over an hour of clips would be well over 8 gig which sounds like a lot for Vegas to handle in one wallop anyway.

In the meantime I have found a program called tsMuxeR that will do what you say, but I hate to use any extra step that will likely degrade the video quality.

I guess the question still comes down to if Vegas can handle spanned clip type files.
musicvid10 wrote on 6/15/2011, 4:56 PM
Are you using the Device Explorer function in Vegas, rather than Windows Explorer?
clearvu wrote on 6/15/2011, 5:23 PM
I've tried both and the results are exactly the same.
John_Cline wrote on 6/15/2011, 7:33 PM
"There is only a transfer utility to get the files from the camera to the computer."

That's all that Sony's Content Management Utility does but it joins individual clips that exceed 2 GB in size. I can't believe that the Canon software would not do the same thing.

By the way, using TSMuxer will not degrade the video quality.
clearvu wrote on 6/15/2011, 7:51 PM
The transfer utility literally only pulls each file off the camera in 2 GIG chunks, or whatever size, if smaller.

I guess I can use TSMuxer, but what a pain to have to take an extra step to compensate for something that I would think should not be required.

Surely I can't be the only person who's had to deal with this issue. Does not Vegas have a way of pulling such files over? The Canon rep told me that there are programs out there that can, but for obvious reasons he could not "endorse" a product. He did not know, however, whether Vegas could and that is what I am trying to find out via the Forum.
musicvid10 wrote on 6/15/2011, 7:58 PM
Try out the trial version of VideoRedo h264. It is designed to do what you want. It's made for this purpose.

But TSMuxer is free and does not degrade or re-encode your files (that's the definition of muxing).
Steve Mann wrote on 6/15/2011, 8:44 PM
"However, joining over an hour of clips would be well over 8 gig which sounds like a lot for Vegas to handle in one wallop anyway."

It's not unusual for my productions to have 20 to 30Gb of source videos.
Chienworks wrote on 6/15/2011, 8:46 PM
You can take care of this right in the OS without any additional software at all. Open up a DOS command prompt window and cd to the directory containing the small clips. Use the binary copy command to join them all into a single file:

copy /b file0000.mts + file0001.mts + file0002.mts combined.mts

This will produce a single file "combined.mts" containing the entire video in one piece with no gaps.

I've done this to produce 50GB+ AVCHD files that Vegas opens and edits flawlessly.
John_Cline wrote on 6/15/2011, 8:59 PM
It's not unusual for my productions to have over 250 GB of source clips, some of which are 40 GB or more in size for a single clip. Vegas handles them fine.

You have a number of options; TSMuxer, VideoReDo h.264, MTSMERGER and the simple DOS copy command, however, it appears that the Pixela software that came with your camcorder may indeed combine clips:

http://www.pixela.co.jp/oem/canon/e/pixela_application_disc_ver20/index.html

I found the following in the Q&A section:

Q: 4-1. [Combine video] I want to combine imported files into a single file.[b] Installing "ImageMixer™ 3 SE Ver.5 Video Tools" is needed to edit video files.

Use "PIXELA Application Disc / Disc2" bundled with the camcorder for installation.

Start "ImageMixer™ 3 SE Ver.5".
Click [Browsing & Authoring] in "ImageMixer™ 3 SE Ver.5" launcher screen.
Select two or more video files to edit while holding down [Ctrl] key on the keyboard.
Click [Movie Edit] and select [Edit new movie].
Select the resolution after editing and click [OK].
Files to combine will be displayed in the Storyboard.
Click the [Save] tab and name the edited file.
UlfLaursen wrote on 6/15/2011, 9:02 PM
This is strange...

I have used several Canon AVCHD camcorders, and I would guess that the XA10 is no different, and should function in Device explorer with the joining of clips. We don't have it in stock right now, but I'll try and find out.

There is made a small util thoug that can do the copy thing for you - you can get it here:

http://vontraining.net/download/ It's the MTSMERGER.EXE file

/Ulf
clearvu wrote on 6/15/2011, 9:40 PM
My camcorder did not come with any software from Pixela except "Transer Utility". Apparently, other Canon models come with another software called "Video Browser".

Not sure why it was decided not to include anything else with the XA-10.

PeterWright wrote on 6/15/2011, 10:35 PM
To simply copy files from card to hard drive doesn't need software - Windows 95 onwards has had drag and drop or CtrlC/CtrlV to do this, so there must be a reason that "Transfer Utility" exists - maybe to join files up?
farss wrote on 6/15/2011, 10:43 PM
You're having the same problem that I and others have with XDCAM EX footage when a clip spans cards. Vegas cannot correctly join such files and the only solution is to use Sony's Clip Browser to merge and export as MXF. Whilst that does not re-encode and hence loose quality, it is quite an impost on time to get busy editing.
Vegas Device Explorer doesn't fix the problem..

Bob.
clearvu wrote on 6/16/2011, 4:51 AM
The "Transfer Utility" certainly does not join the files.

Although it is quite a simple process to drag files via Windows, or copy and paste, some may not know how, I guess.

The only real benefit of the "Transfer Utility" is that it tracks what files have been transfered and which have not. It also has an integrated feature for uploading to YouTube, so it is not without some additional purposes.
clearvu wrote on 6/16/2011, 4:54 AM
Is "Sony's Clip Browser" for Sony specific cameras? Is it available for download?
Chienworks wrote on 6/16/2011, 11:43 AM
Did you try the DOS binary copy? It's simple, easy, and free.
clearvu wrote on 6/16/2011, 1:28 PM
I did try the DOS method. The only problem is that the file is so burried within subdirectories and with a long name, it takes like forever to use that method.

I did, however, try tsMuxeR, and it did work. Too bad the Vegas crew did not include that capability itself within the Vegas program. I would not think that I am unique with this need as there seem to be many camcorder brands doing the same thing with the recording method.
Chienworks wrote on 6/16/2011, 1:41 PM
The "forever" isn't due to the complexity of the path or the length of the filename. It's merely because the files are huge. It still takes forever even if the files are f:\file1.mts and f:\file2.mts

As far as the length of the filenames and how far down they are buried, that's entirely up to the user behind the keyboard.
Rob Franks wrote on 6/16/2011, 1:55 PM
"Too bad the Vegas crew did not include that capability itself within the Vegas program."

They did.... "device Explorer"
Unfortunately it only works with certain cameras.
John_Cline wrote on 6/16/2011, 2:38 PM
"Too bad the Vegas crew did not include that capability itself within the Vegas program. I would not think that I am unique with this need as there seem to be many camcorder brands doing the same thing with the recording method."

No, it's too bad that the camera manufacturers don't include a simple piece of transfer software that joins the segments for you automatically when you transfer the clips. Sony did, it's called the "Content Management Utility" and it works flawlessly. I don't know why Canon didn't include the additional part of the Pixela software with your camera that they include with their other cameras.
clearvu wrote on 6/16/2011, 3:03 PM
I do find that extremely strange. I've got Canon's Tech Reps looking into that one. The guy I spoke to thought it was odd, but all his resources indicate that the XA-10 does not have that piece of software bundled.

It is one of their newer camcorders and perhaps there was a screw up somewhere. In the long run I hope to get my hands on the Pixela Video Browser software that apparently should be able to join the files, perhaps even automatically as it transfers them to the computer.
clearvu wrote on 6/16/2011, 3:05 PM
"As far as the length of the filenames and how far down they are buried, that's entirely up to the user behind the keyboard. "

Good point. ;-)
PeterDuke wrote on 6/16/2011, 6:21 PM
My Sony camera came with PMB (Picture Motion Browser), a database and browser utility that only works with certain Sony still and video cameras. To download a copy from the web, it is also called Sony Picture Utility.

If used to transfer videos from camera to computer, it not only joins up chopped clips, it also renames the clips to shooting date and time, a most valuable feature for me. Sure, it takes time to do the transfer, but there are other things in life that take my time and I can do them during the transfer.