AVCHD ~ is it even worth it?

s k r o o t a y p wrote on 5/19/2010, 7:41 PM
graduating from frustrated to discouraged. used to love editing video. until i got an AVCHD camera. sure the video quality is stunning but you can't edit the stuff!

i was just about to go out and buy a quad core, 6G RAM, 1T hard drive etc., etc, etc. because i initially heard that horsepower was the answer. but the more i search, the more threads i see on choppy preview playback all the way up to plat pro 9. people bought the latest new computers to no avail. the camera won't let you reduce resolution so apparently you have to experiment with a bunch of programs that attempt to do it for you. sounds like endless troubleshooting and additional steps. someone even talked about switching to corel after all the learning invested in VMS. choppy playback totally saps the spontaneity and inspiration out of editing. i love going nuts with effects & transitions and using the program for all it's worth like i used to. i could never live with choppy playback. we're supposed to be going forward here. HD is supposed to be an advance.

honestly, i had more fun (with a load of great help from this forum!) editing from my old sony high-8. is there a straight-forward-one-time answer or should i sell the camera and look to a more friendly form of HD?

t h a n k s !
david

Comments

david_f_knight wrote on 5/19/2010, 9:12 PM
You should probably sell your camera. HD is an advance, and a big one -- in resolution, not in editing performance. You should use the correct tool for the job. If you want resolution, use HD. If you want maximum speed during editing, use your old Sony Hi-8. It's unrealistic to expect both at once.
Birk Binnard wrote on 5/19/2010, 10:22 PM
I must disagree with the previous post even though David knows a lot more about video than I do. Here's why:

I did still photography for years and used a series of SLR & DSLR cameras. I pretty much got hooked on good resolution years ago. I have a 42" HDTV. I wanted to show my photos on my TV so I got a PS3 which does that job very well. I quickly became aware of the fact that photos are still and TV was designed for motion. So I switched cameras and got a Panasonic GH1 that takes HD aspect ratio stills and full HD (1920x1080) video in AVCHD format.

Of course I realized from my photo editing experience that editing video would be a major difference requiring both some learning and better equipment. So I got a new PC with an i7 CPU, 6GB RAM, and nVidia 9600GT. I already had dual monitors.

I tested 2 video editors that could handle AVCHD files directly: Vegas MS and PowerDirector. It was clear to me that Vegas was the superior product so I bought it. Since that time (about a year ago) I have learned a lot about video editing and how complicated it can be. Of course I know that there is much more to learn, but so far I' feel like I'm doing pretty well.

For my purposes I find my system works fine. During editing the playback window is jerky sometimes, and sometimes it skips over transitions. But for me its the end result that counts, and when I play back rendered files on my HDTV the results are terrific.

As someone here once told me, if you want performance like the pros you have to pay the pro prices. Since I am a mere amateur I can't justify this of course, but I find that a reasonable level of performance can easily be had for consumer level costs.

Of course my work doesn't come close to professional quality, but that's not my intent. I can mix stills and videos of the places I visit (most recently Machu Picchu) and showing this on my HDTV is very cool indeed.
pdx10 wrote on 5/20/2010, 12:36 AM
I don't know what the fuss is all about. I use a sony HDR-CX520v avchd camera, edit in VMS Plat, and burn it to a DVD in Avchd format. Sure, the video is not like a blu-ray, pretty close when played on a Sony Blu-ray player onto my flat screen HD TV. I can burn using my DVD-R disks and my DVD burner. The video preview on VMS is choppy, and the audio is not always in sync, but it all pans out in the rendering. Don't get discouraged. Try editing a short video, about 5 min. worth, it should come out fine.
Aloha!
s k r o o t a y p wrote on 5/20/2010, 2:51 PM
hmm, it just doesn't seem like an advance if it doesn't surpass the old technology on all levels (or i guess you could say that the editing world is just still not ready for this advance). i just can't see waiting through the whole rendering process to see if major transitions and effects came out right.

specific questions:
1 if i need to "pay the pro's prices" well, what do they use? does mac make a significant difference over pc?
2 what about these resolution reducing programs? what resolution do you need to take it down to in order to get it to preview smoothly? how much of an extra step is this?
3 what are other HD format options beside AVCHD?

thanks!
david j
Rainer wrote on 5/20/2010, 4:57 PM
Hi Skrootayp
1. There are system suggestions here: http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/mastersuite. Take these to your local computer shop and they will be able to do it for half this price. But you probably still won't get decent multi-track AVCHD playback. I have a core i7 quad with 8GB RAM and cannot in Vegas playback AVCHD in full res. This is because Vegas does not leverage the graphics card. It is sad that the whole range of other cheaper editing programs will let me play back full scale AVCHD. But really only one track without a performance hit. The truth is that at this stage AVCHD is an acquisition format rather than an editing format. There is nothing magic about a Mac that will let it outperform a similar spec PC, but it will cost significantly more. In addition, Final Cut Pro is now clunky and outdated, never could natively handle AVCHD, and may not in future be updated. Macs do not play nicely with BluRay. Despite having been an industry standard for video editing in previous years, Apple now seems to have dropped the ball.
2. You can successfully edit AVCHD by using intermediates and proxies. There are a whole range of free conversion programs that will let you build proxies.
3. HDV, Mpeg2, P2, etc. But as a compromise between, cost, ease, storage, quality and convenience nothing beats AVCHD. In my opinion, the format is magic and totally worth it.
s k r o o t a y p wrote on 5/23/2010, 8:05 PM
thanks guys!

david
Edverd wrote on 5/26/2010, 2:31 AM
Hopefully when Vegas Movie Studio 10 is released in
early June alot of these issues will be adressed: see this link
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=710435&Replies=21

Adobe newest Preimer Pro is one of the few editors to use
GPU acceleration, and even at that it only works with 3 or 4
'approved' models of GPUs, and no SLI dualies allowed.
So I doubt VMS 10 will. We'll see soon.

What I hate about VMS 9 is that it is a VIDEO editor for making
DVDs (primarily), yet Sony saw fit to cripple the quality by locking
out the ability to set a decent MPEG2 bit-rate. I think it's preset at
4MBs. DVDs can handle 8-9MBs. Vegas Pro lets you set bit-rate.
Supposedly a Main Concepts Codec costs thing. I'd rather pay
extra for full functionality. This is rediculus anyway because
there is a work around, by rendering in AVI in VMS, and then
letting DVD Architect rerender to fit. 1hr 8Mbs for single layer,
2hr 8Mbs for dual layer. If video longer Architect will compress
to 3, 4, 5, 6, or 7MBs to fit. Would be so much nicer to be able to
set MPEG2 quality in VMS and just render once.

That's what I can't stand about companies that have a Pro and
a Home version, like Sony and Adobe. They have to cripple the
daylights out of the Home version, so it doesn't impact sales
of the Pro.